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Airport Security Is Killing Us

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201–210 of 262 posts

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#201

Hear. Hear. I want to be able to walk into an airport with my shoes on and walk calmly to an arrival gate to greet arriving passengers there. And I want to be able to carry a Swiss Army knife in an airline carry-on bag. And I want the terrorists to be attacked relentlessly where they live, so that they have to hide in caves and ride on goats, while Americans and other people in developed countries get to lead civiliz…

> I say let loose the drones You do realise that what the drone attacks are doing is to further radicalise people in Pakistan, don't you? A bit like what's happening in Gaza, what these attacks do is remove a few visible figureheads, kill people who aren't necessarily connected, and turn a good number of previously neutral or inactive people into sympathisers or more active combatants. The idea of a relentless attack…

You seem to base your opinion of what is happening in Gaza on occasional random watching of biased TV news, which is not a good way to form an informed opinion. If facts are of any interest to you, here you go:

1. Strikes in Gaza are not removing figurehead, they strike known military commanders, whose direct involvement in the acts of terror and war is beyond any reasonable doubt. They also strike infrastructure used for such activities and for other purposes by military organisations. Of course, Israel army is not ideal and sometimes it is impossible to strike military targets without hurting civilians, and sometimes the intelligence is mistaken or the execution is flawed and civilians suffer. However representing it as "removing figureheads" and "killing people who aren't connected" only is to pervert the whole reality of what is happening. 2. As for further radicalizing - I'm not sure how you see further radicalizations of Hamas. Instead of destroying Israel and killing or expelling all Jews living there they'd want what? Instead of shooting rockets into the midst of Israeli cities and sending human bombs into the midst of Israel streets, restaurants malls they would do what? How you imaging further radicalized Hamas and Islamic Jihad that is worse than they are now? 3. The whole premise that people become terrorists because somebody hurt them is a red herring. Of course, some individual people do, but there are numerous example of terrorist organisations - both Islamic and non-Islamic - composed of people who were never hurt by anybody, they just decided that's the right thing to do. The facts show that stopping fighting terrorists does not make them disband for lack of recruits - this makes them bolder. Leaving Afghanistan to Taliban did not make Taliban unpopular. Leaving Gaza to Hamas did not make Hamas unpopular. Quite the contrary - they grew stronger and gathered more resources. 4. There is much difference with War on Drugs, and it can be easily seen. Terrorists are criminals that hurt people in order to advance their political agenda, and count on population being afraid and thus caving in to their demands. Drug users do not hurt anybody but themselves, have no demands from anybody and are pursued by the state for the only reason of spending their time and money in a fashion not approved by the state. If you leave drug users alone, nothing would happen. If you leave terrorists alone, you get 9/11. Notice the difference?

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#202
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying I consent to have the sandwich you made but I don't consent to give you money for it, therefore you the sandwich shop owner are robbing me. You analyze the cost-benefit and consent to the whole package. You can't pick and choose.

No, nothing like that. I do not have a constitutionally protected right to eat a sandwich. I do have one to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. Furthermore, with the sandwich, there are alternatives available to me. I can choose to go somewhere else that serves cheaper sandwiches, or make my own. There are some places that I just cannot get to without flying; and some for which getting there would take so l…

> I do not have a constitutionally protected right to eat a sandwich

Nor do you have a constitutionally protected right to air travel.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#203
post #140

Hear. Hear. I want to be able to walk into an airport with my shoes on and walk calmly to an arrival gate to greet arriving passengers there. And I want to be able to carry a Swiss Army knife in an airline carry-on bag. And I want the terrorists to be attacked relentlessly where they live, so that they have to hide in caves and ride on goats, while Americans and other people in developed countries get to lead civiliz…

It is precisely your neo-imperialist, 'preemptive strike' mentality that is the cause of contemporary terrorism. It is, in fact, terrorism itself. If you think your life as a Western consumer is somehow non-violent and unrelated to the global situation, I pity your naïveté. I haven't the time to expound further.

Terrorism is a tactic of murdering civilians in order to scare other civilians to behave like the terrorists want. Striking terrorists is nothing like that - nobody cares how they behave once they fulfill one simple condition - they don't murder anybody, don't blow up stuff and don't kidnap and behead people they consider infidels. If they stopped doing that, nobody would care what they do.

It's the same as saying putting a murderer into prison is the same as kidnapping an innocent child. Both limit freedom, but if you think for a minute, you'll find the difference. Try it.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#204

Hear. Hear. I want to be able to walk into an airport with my shoes on and walk calmly to an arrival gate to greet arriving passengers there. And I want to be able to carry a Swiss Army knife in an airline carry-on bag. And I want the terrorists to be attacked relentlessly where they live, so that they have to hide in caves and ride on goats, while Americans and other people in developed countries get to lead civiliz…

"So, yeah, if a peaceful process of information flow could bring Afghanistan into the Twenty-First Century, I'm all for that." I'm constantly surprised that when it comes to regime change that there isn't an effort to set up some satellites and air-drop some mobile smartphones with data plans designed with the same principals as one-laptop-per-child. Look at what Facebook and Twitter did for the Arab Spring.

The role of Facebook and Twitter in Arab Spring is hugely exaggerated. Yes, people used both to communicate. But nothing was caused by it - it was caused by people being tired by old and rusty dictatorships, which also suppressed their religious thrivings (which btw may be not really all that nice if fulfilled - dictatorship is bad, but formally democratic fundamentalist regime is not really freedom either).

The reason why airdropping mobile phones would not work is very simple - first, they would not work (no electricity, no coverage in most of the territory), second, the ruling powers would execute everybody that uses it. And they are quite good at executing people for ... well, anything they like. Limiting flow of information to majority of people is quite easy, if the regime is ruthless enough to enforce it.

OLPC is possible only with local authorities' cooperation. Without it, it could achieve nothing.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#205
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and your bag arriving in Minnesota while you're touching down in Dallas at worst Is this even possible when gate checking? They literally walk your bag down the stairs at the end of the gate and place it into the plane cargo hold. EDIT: At the end of the flight, your bag is walked up the stairs back into the jetway. I personally love the gate check loophole. If you intentionally wait to board last, you get a free bag…

I don't know whether exactly that is possible, but I have had the following happen: my bag got gate-checked on an intra-US connecting flight, and my carrier then wouldn't return it until I reached my final destination in London. Which meant that I didn't have it with me when my flight to London was cancelled and I had to stay overnight in Chicago (too bad since it had my washkit and a change of clothes in it) and tha…

Next time just tell them you have medicine in that bag that you need in the next 8 hours (which is why you tried to carry it on).

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#206
post #97
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boarding an airplane probably isn't where 4th amendment rights are most needed...

I wish I had thought to keep links, but I've seen enough reports of people being picked out of the line for further review based on race, gender, and other attributes to want to see an investigation.

Profiling by gender makes no sense - it's not like there's much choice and I see no reason why anybody would want to profile by gender for any reason, if we're talking about security. How did it look - are men picked out just because they are men? Or women are picked out just because they are women? Both sounds strange. And I'm speaking not about it being right - just about why anybody, however evil, would want to use it for any purpose at all. Nobody profiles by color of one's shoes or by third letter of the last name. Profiling must make sense at least in the mind of the profiler. I can imagine what happens in the mind of somebody who wants to profile by, say, citizenship - citizen of Saudi Arabia is probably statistically speaking more risk than citizen of the USA. But gender?

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odds of developing cancer: 1 in 3 Lets convert it to a cancer awareness foundation; where they touch you for actually important reasons. Source: http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probabili...

Don't give them any ideas. They might just add testicular cancer screenings to the current procedure.

That would require almost no changes, so I'd say win-win.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#208
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, nothing like that. I do not have a constitutionally protected right to eat a sandwich. I do have one to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. Furthermore, with the sandwich, there are alternatives available to me. I can choose to go somewhere else that serves cheaper sandwiches, or make my own. There are some places that I just cannot get to without flying; and some for which getting there would take so l…

> I do not have a constitutionally protected right to eat a sandwich Nor do you have a constitutionally protected right to air travel.

Not a constitutional right, but one granted by public law.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/40103

"A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace."

I choose to exercise that right by paying an airline to transport me by air.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#209
post #28

Odds of dying from fireworks: 1 in 652,046 Odds of dying from lightning strike: 1 in 134,906 Odds of being legally executed: 1 in 111,179 Odds of dying from contact with bees/wasps: 1 in 79,842 Odds of being shot: 1 in 6,609 Odds of dying from a fall 1 in 163 Odds of dying in a terrorist attack: 1 in 3,500,000 Maybe we should switch the TSA to bee patrol. (Source: http://www.nsc.org/NSC%20Picture%20Library/News/web_g…

Execution is out of place here since you have very high control over if you will be executed or not. If you aren't murdering anyone or participate in activities that can end up this way (such as violent crime), odds of your being executed is much lower - it's not zero, since you can still be falsely accused, but much lower than just execution statistics.

Also, odds of dying from bees, etc. probably depend a lot on if specific person is allergic to the particular toxin or not, which is not random for this person.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#210
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are strawman arguments. Meeting uninformed Americans is not evidence that the entirety of the American populace is ignorant of their failings as a developed nation. For example, we are taught about slavery and the genocide of Native Americans in primary school. We dedicate an entire month to Black History because we are acutely aware of our status as one of the most institutionally racist countries on the plane…

Nothing I said was an argument, I was only stating my opinion. An opinion, it seems, that is not uncommon. http://blogs.reuters.com/bernddebusmann/2011/10/28/america-w... > Please leave your preconceptions at the door when having a serious discussion. Upon arriving in America in 2003, I had no preconceptions. I'm speaking from my experiences living and working in the country.

When talking about murder statistics, you can't be speaking from experience, can you?

The truth is that there are some very nice places in America, and some not very nice places. In the nice places, statistics is good or better than a developed country, in the not nice places, statistics is worth - because these places are nothing like developed country. While they are inside the borders of the USA, their life is very different from the life of the nice places. Smaller countries frequently do not have such diversity, and averages can be deceptive (when Bill Gates walks into a bar, average wealth of the bar patron raises significantly, even though nobody really got any richer).

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