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Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

pcmag.com

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Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#201

Post by stavros »

charcircuit wrote: post #167
lrvick wrote: post #161

Centralized proprietary software on on proprietary platforms can always be opted into a special update that makes all the private keys deterministic making end to end encryption useless for anyone with knowledge of that targeted backdoor. Only FOSS can deliver verifiable E2EE, and all centralized and proprietary solutions like Zoom, Whatsapp, Instagram, etc should end the security theater. I applaud Meta for at least…

Centralized FOSS software can do the same thing and remove encryption. Open source is not a requirement for security.

Those two claims are independent. Centralized FOSS software cannot do this, since you can audit the source, compile it, and use it that way.

Open source is not a requirement for security, sure, but it's much easier to secure OSS.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#202

Post by nosioptar »

CodeCompost wrote: post #144
jezzamon wrote: post #101

People here like it, but end-to-end encryption is an objectively worse user experience for people that don't care about that feature

How is it a worse experience? It's ridiculously simple: The app sends a public key to the person you're talking to. The end user doesn't even need to notice it. What am I missing here?

On Facebook, I cannot receive messages. It only shows me a bit saying it's encrypted.

I used to help a nonprofit with their facebook account, made it a real pain in the ass for everyone involved.

Of course facebook has no customer service and their slop docs were of no use.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#203

Post by mrexcess »

Terr_ wrote: post #43
rileymat2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fly in the ointment is that they control the software and updates to that closed software so can short circuit that with appropriate pressure.

Throwing this on the "brainstorm if we had an ideal legislative world" pile: Stealing a user's private key should be a felony, even if it hasn't (yet) been abused for anything. The tricky part is keeping it from being "permitted" by a crappy contract of adhesion. Banning it entirely would make it very difficult to buy/sell backup services...

Legal solutions to technical problems are always dubious, especially when privacy against government surveillance is the problem.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#204

Post by sotix »

tylerchilds wrote: post #13

Put simply: I’ve talked to Apple engineers. Siri fell behind due to how good Apple’s privacy is. Everyone made fun of them for protecting them. This is exactly the opposite of that, where Mark is throwing you and your children under the bus again because he’s unoriginal and doesn’t know how to make money any other way than by getting all up in your business, statistically.

Interesting. I've talked with engineers at Apple that worked directly on the Siri team who made no such claim and said it largely a cultural issue.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#205

Post by Terr_ »

mrexcess wrote: post #203
Terr_ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwing this on the "brainstorm if we had an ideal legislative world" pile: Stealing a user's private key should be a felony, even if it hasn't (yet) been abused for anything. The tricky part is keeping it from being "permitted" by a crappy contract of adhesion. Banning it entirely would make it very difficult to buy/sell backup services...

Legal solutions to technical problems are always dubious, especially when privacy against government surveillance is the problem.

Ah, but not nearly as dubious as technical solutions to legal problems...

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#206

Post by nothinkjustai »

jesterson wrote: post #109
nothinkjustai wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple feels like the only big tech company that remotely cares about its users. Thank god they make the best computer and OS too. I’m sure this will not be a popular take on HN however.

> I’m sure this will not be a popular take on HN however. Precisely because it's your feelings, not objective observation. No public company would care of their users, even remotely. Indeed, during Jobs time it actually worked that way, but that time is long gone. The OS is not nearly the best, just like laptops.

Nothing anyone says about Apple here is based on “objective observation” so idk what your point is. Your entire comment is also just your feelings.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#207

Post by aeonik »

charcircuit wrote: post #180
stuaxo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the proprietary stuff there isn't a strong built incentive to remove it.

One incentive is that it makes for a simpler user experience.

It's an even simpler user experience to just publicly publish all private information.

Can you imaging, I wouldn't even need to give my social security number to another org manually again. Anyone could just look it up. It would make things so easy for everyone.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#208

Post by _boffin_ »

tylerchilds wrote: post #13

Put simply: I’ve talked to Apple engineers. Siri fell behind due to how good Apple’s privacy is. Everyone made fun of them for protecting them. This is exactly the opposite of that, where Mark is throwing you and your children under the bus again because he’s unoriginal and doesn’t know how to make money any other way than by getting all up in your business, statistically.

> Siri fell behind due to how good Apple’s privacy is.

Uhh. What the heck are you talking about? I’m calling straight bs on this unless presented rational.

Siri has access to knowledge.db or whatever it is, which is the centralized hub for pretty much all things. Siri phones home every request made via Siri.

I think you got sold snake oil

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#209

Post by mrexcess »

Terr_ wrote: post #205
mrexcess wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal solutions to technical problems are always dubious, especially when privacy against government surveillance is the problem.

Ah, but not nearly as dubious as technical solutions to legal problems...

lol honestly, I think a little on the contrary. If we can make a thing impossible technically, the law defers to that. One thing the government really can’t do easily in Western countries is forcing a company to add features or change core functionality.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#210

Post by dyauspitr »

jesterson wrote: post #112
dyauspitr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is the reason I’m still on team Apple.

Would you care to explain why do you think privacy with Apple is any better than other teams?

Because they do privacy well. Everything is encrypted.
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