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The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

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201–210 of 250 posts

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes it did. I don't recall any. I remember when people were all agog when Gates became one. > successful businesses were led by young people across the entirety of human history. Sure. But billionaires? > And you should not praise someone for simply being a billionaire. If they're self-made, they earned the praise. > That's a bad thing to be. Creating value is not a bad thing. Being a self-made billionaire means th…

> If they're self-made, they earned the praise. They aren’t and they didn’t. > Being a self-made billionaire means they created a billion dollars of value. They didn't take it from you or anyone else. Nobody is a “self made” billionaire. That value you’re talking about didn’t just spring into existence. It had to come from somewhere. There is always a source. Who flew the rocket? Who built the rocket? Who built the p…

What you're referring to are called "expenses". The value created is what somebody is willing to pay for a piece of that action (i.e. an ownership share). Expenses reduce the value.

For example, if you bake a cake the value you created is what you can sell the cake for minus the cost of the ingredients and the use of an oven. For SpaceX, the money spent to buy materials and pay employees takes away value.

> that nobody could ever reasonably spend into the hands of one person (especially when that money is just the excess value produced by the workers) is unethical and unneeded.

Musk doesn't spend much of his money. He invests it in creating more businesses.

> is unethical and unneeded.

You're arguing that Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, etc., are unethical and unneeded. None of those companies would exist without Musk investing his fortune into them.

BTW, why don't you and your friends get together and start a rocket company and make yourselves billionaires?

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes it did. I don't recall any. I remember when people were all agog when Gates became one. > successful businesses were led by young people across the entirety of human history. Sure. But billionaires? > And you should not praise someone for simply being a billionaire. If they're self-made, they earned the praise. > That's a bad thing to be. Creating value is not a bad thing. Being a self-made billionaire means th…

> Being a self-made billionaire means they created a billion dollars of value. two of the people on the list did it via online gambling. Which is by definition a zero-sum game. No value was created.

Need more information.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how you figure that pressure to increase profits has increased?

The US birth rate began to drop in the 1960s. [0] At the time we were a more self-contained economy. Since then, there are fewer births per capita, and we've opened up global markets for labor and resources. If you have fewer people aging into markets for goods and services as time goes on, you have to monetize them more intensely in order to maintain revenues. At the same time, other markets (China, India, etc.) off…

Why wouldn't people "monetize" things before?

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes it did. I don't recall any. I remember when people were all agog when Gates became one. > successful businesses were led by young people across the entirety of human history. Sure. But billionaires? > And you should not praise someone for simply being a billionaire. If they're self-made, they earned the praise. > That's a bad thing to be. Creating value is not a bad thing. Being a self-made billionaire means th…

> If they're self-made, they earned the praise. They aren’t and they didn’t. > Being a self-made billionaire means they created a billion dollars of value. They didn't take it from you or anyone else. Nobody is a “self made” billionaire. That value you’re talking about didn’t just spring into existence. It had to come from somewhere. There is always a source. Who flew the rocket? Who built the rocket? Who built the p…

> That value you’re talking about didn’t just spring into existence. It had to come from somewhere.

Are you arguing that wealth is not created, but is transferred? Where was SpaceX's value transferred from? Where was the current wealth in the United States 250 years ago?

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#206

> Our gerontocracy is not the result of a malevolent plan, .. Boomers aren't distinctively evil.. The fact that they are so numerous and the fact that they are aging in era when life has been extended make the syndrome endemic. .. America faces a gerontocratic crisis of succession on the scale of society itself. The melodrama of succession—­waiting for the old to make way for the new—­defines not only our politics bu…

> cordial relations between the generations are over Is ageism not like racism, sexism, etc.? Do you have decent relations with your living parents and grandparents?

A lot of people put their life on hold for the unhealthy and the elderly during a global pandemic that occurred a few years ago.

While many of the people who did so profited handsomely many did not.

There hasn't really been any recognition of this or any sort of plan to provide restitution for this sacrifice.

That isn't ageism. That's reality.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#207
post #56

I have trouble predicting how public sentiment will evolve over time. I'm not that young, and still and the last 10 years have left me with an absolutely blistering distrust of the 70+ crowd on any matter pertaining to positions of authority. I'd like to see ~67 and ~72 become the other 18 and 21: hard lines beyond which the law progressively rescinds the presumption of total competence. It's not a pretty solution. T…

Go look at the demographics of the last election and then tell me which groups shouldn't be allowed to vote.

> Go look at the demographics of the last election and then tell me which groups shouldn't be allowed to vote

The group that uses the rhetoric like "which groups shouldn't be allowed to vote". You tell me which one that is.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#208
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By law is how we got to where we currently are. There's no reason to think that would change. You'd have to trick all the people who are old (plus all the people who realize they will get old too) to vote away their assets, income, and power. Unrest will just harden the people who see your cause as unjust against it. That will be a strong majority of people, so will go no where. Revolution seems highly unlikely to su…

So, what exactly do you think will happen? Nothing? You've ruled out every other alternative.

Yes, nothing. Your intergenerational war isn't even going to start.

The societal problems we face are real. Framing them as young/good vs. old/bad is effectively the same as ignoring them entirely.

You should be looking for a different framing.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#209
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unrest will just harden the people who see your cause as unjust against it. That will be a strong majority of people, so will go no where. I think you're wrong here. Most people are pretty fed up right now.

If most people were fed up I think you'd see it in voting patterns. Instead, a substantial fraction of the population don't care enough to vote one way or the other. Those that do vote have been pushing us toward the system we have now. It's going to be hard to sell policies that disenfranchise old people... There are a lot of people who don't want to be penniless and homeless with a diminished capacity to work. That…

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Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#210
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds dramatic, but what are we talking about here? How about this? https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/4633773-eat-the-boomers-... > In his book, “A Generation of Sociopaths: How the Baby Boomers Betrayed America,” Bruce Gibney argued that “generational plunder” was their economic legacy. Through tax cuts and deficit financing of several wars, the Boomers left America in shock. “Plunder” is a strong word. In the…

That article is calling for an additional estate tax. That's sounds reasonable to me. But you seem to be talking about taking the retirement savings and homes of people who are using them to live. You find different numbers in different places, but the median retirement savings for boomers is under $200,000. That's a lot of money, but it needs to last ~15 years or so, years where they're likely to have reduced or no…

> You find different numbers in different places, but the median retirement savings for boomers is under $200,000.

from https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2026/03/18/national-...

> Greene desires something that has long been forecast but that has not happened: “more generational conflict.” However, “the boomers are organized,” and there has not been “a broader political awakening among younger generations.” So, boomers are serenely unthreatened as some of their households receive almost $117,000 annually from Social Security, and some Medicare programs cover “golf balls, greens fees, social clubs, ski trips, and horseback riding.”

Indeed, so serenely unthreatened that they are very actively threatening to everyone else. These are the same people that are forever using hunger as a bargaining chip with snap, school lunches, and policing what other people can and cannot get.

> The attitude seems to be, "to hell with them, who cares?"

The attitude is just that they were the primary beneficiaries of the spending. They presided over the debt growth to ~40 trillion and if they did not approve they also did not stop it. They still will not let anyone else stop it! If the generational conflict were literally a war with a truce, one might expect significant reparations, or at least acknowledgement and apology? Far from it. Older folks gouged out 10x profit selling crappy houses, and while young people are delaying life milestones for decades to try to buy that house, boomer landlords charged them rent to stay at their third investment property and mocked legitimate hardship with latte and avocado toast bullshit.

For whoever needs to hear this, that 'ok boomer' reply feels less and less adequate. It's actually deadly serious and a very bloody business to just doom millions of people. Data will be clear about this one day and you already see all the trends.. deaths of despair up, life expectancy down, births down, conflict up, climate crisis closer, all with zero resources to pick up the slack. Boomers have even begun destroying international standing and friendships that might have helped us negotiate the national debt situation later. While they're working to pull the ladder up for the improvements they made to civil liberties and women's lib. On the whole they'll have lived longer, happier lives in better conditions than their kids, and they did it by stealing the future.

> everyone self-aware enough to realize they too hope to become old.

That's exactly what I'm getting it. Again not so much for you but for whoever needs to hear it.. Prospects on HN are better than average, ok? And Gen-Z looks to be childless, which may be painful, but is rational and avoids drama. Listening to average Gen-X / Millennials though.. many obviously don't plan to be old. They know they can't afford to be old. So they are taking care of their elders, they are taking care of their kids, and when that tapers off they're planning to just die quickly themselves if/when they get sick. The worst nightmare of what must never happen to the elderly in civilized society is just another awkward future that boomers may have already caused and will not have to face, but posterity will.

Hope this helps someone, really. Boomers need to be able to hear it. This is a bit like being an American abroad.. you expect to be a bit of punching bag on occasion. It doesn't actually matter if you're personally complicit, you kind of need to acknowledge you're a member of a group that has been up to no good. It's not a shame ritual, or bitter ranting, or just provocative. It's a calculated test that's probing for ignorance or understanding, character, empathy, and solidarity. Most boomers don't pass, and don't pass, and don't pass, and make things worse. => End of patience, end of cordial relations, end of respect, end of trust, end of relationships.

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