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The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

muddy.jprs.me

201–210 of 291 posts

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#201

My take is the shift to mobile is what really caused the biggest change in the Internet. By the mid/late 2000s, the UX for surfing the Web was mostly pretty good. Navigating to another site was as easy as typing in its URL or issuing a quick search. Navigating the Web on mobile is much more difficult -- even 15+ years later simple things like browser tabs are a nuisance on mobile. Typing URLs is still a pain. Etc. Th…

Not just difficulty on the browsing side, difficulty on the presentation side, too. It took a while for anybody to figure out a decent presentation for forums on mobile devices, and in the meantime the experience was terrible. Frankly, you can get away with much worse UI on desktop, which made hacking together a webpage much easier.

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#202
For me, what has really changed is the feeling of having community on the Internet.

In the 90s, I had:

    Instant Messenger with people I knew
    IRC channels for interests
    Forums for specific topics
    A Web Ring for my James Bond website
Back then, the Internet felt like an actual place I went to. I would sit down at the computer, dial up, and enter a space that had boundaries. When I was done, I left, and that separation made the time I spent there feel focused and real. You couldn't take it with you, and that was a feature, not a bug.

In the 2000s, we had:

    Social Media (Facebook), where you actually talked to people you knew and shared experiences with them
It hadn't yet become a content distribution machine. It was still a tool for connection.

All of this still exists, but it just doesn't feel the same. I don't think it's simply because I grew up, or because I'm looking back with rose-colored glasses. And I don't think it's just because these spaces became ghost towns as people consolidated into a few large networks. The architecture changed. The Internet stopped being a destination and became a layer on top of real life that never turns off. Somewhere along the way, the business model shifted from helping people talk to each other to extracting as much attention as possible, and you can feel that in every interaction.

Maybe that's why something is missing.

Facebook now has too many connections, and is just designed for resharing and getting people to doom scroll. There's no real interaction with your friends anymore. It became a broadcast network pretending to be a living room.

On Reddit, I feel like the community is way too big. I don't know who I am talking to and have no connection with anyone on there, even for things that should be local, like my city's subreddit. It feels less like a neighborhood and more like a stadium where thousands of people are shouting over each other.

Hacker News feels the closest to a community, but it is still too big. I have never made a single personal connection here, so I don't even know what I am contributing to. It all just feels faceless and bland.

We still have "Instant Messaging", but my biggest issue is they are pretty much all tied to a phone and "always online." I have zero interest in having a long back-and-forth conversation on that medium, especially now that there is no status of the other people. Back in the day, you were online or not online, and that boundary created a kind of ritual. A conversation could actually be instant and FOCUSED because you both showed up to the same place at the same time. Now it's just a slow conversation over days that randomly interrupts what you are doing. The persistence feels more like an obligation than a hangout.

Most forums feel dead. IRC just isn't the same anymore, and I really dislike being locked into Discord or other proprietary platforms. Matrix bridging has been a godsend, but isn't perfect. I know these small communities haven't completely vanished, but they have been buried. In the old days, you found them through webrings and serendipity. Now you have to dig for them on purpose, and most people never will. My long time friends don't use them anymore, so they aren't useful in connecting to people I already have relationships with.

The Internet just doesn't feel connected or fun anymore.

Don't get me wrong, being able to do research and find information on the internet is better than it has ever been, and I am grateful for that. But the Internet seems to have split in two: it became an incredible tool for finding information, and a terrible tool for sustaining relationships. The Internet was touted as a place for connection, and I feel like that part is long gone. Or if it still exists somewhere, it's hiding in small corners that the algorithms never show us, while the rest of the web is optimized for engagement instead of actually being together.

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower cost of living and higher incomes when compared to purchasing power of a dollar.

That and also people weren't paying for Netflix, Disney+, PlayStation online, ChatGPT+, etc Edit: Also people were having more kids back then and earlier in life, so they had less time for hobbies and "finding one's self", they'd be busy with their kids and work. The bored DINKS with free time looking for hobbies is a relatively recent phenomenon in western societies (10-15 years).

People were paying $150/mo cable bill.

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#204
This is 100% nostalgia writing.

Yes the internet has changed, as it always has. The internet is many layers built upon each other. Under no circumstances would I consider the 2000s to be the "old internet", there are probably plenty of people in this thread who get a chuckle out of that. I assure you, there are plenty who look down on what you think was the "golden age". The procession of generations is to lament the younger and affirm Hesiod's ages of man in their own way. I'm sure you don't have to dig very hard to find computer scientists lamenting the new generation of undergrads in the 1980s who spent too much time with the low-brow, crude and totally soulless Usenet phenomenon.

The "old internet" isn't dead, and this is somewhat acknowledged by the author with a disclaimer. In fact, they make note the number of people producing work that they would normally value is higher than ever. But they lament it with a vague feeling that it's simply "not the same", not feeling like it "came from some place". That's very telling, because that's exactly a sensation of disenchantment. As we age, there are less surprises, less things feel new, less mysteries to wonder about. Patterns that were hidden and novel come into stark relief. The more pessimistically minded begin to suffer from world-weariness. Anomie sets in, and rationalization begins, attempting to ground the loss of youthful whimsy with some external phenomenon.

I would say embrace it, you were always on your way to become a crotchety old coot. That's a very important social role to play. Just don't mistake your rationalization of feelings for something substantial, it's nothing but a hard-wired delusion to help guide your development as a human being.

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#205
post #166

People just aren’t seeing it because they aren’t going to the fun places. Of course the major social platforms and search engines will never point the way to fun. Fun is made without any financial motivation. The fun places are out there aplenty. People just have to go out and find it because no algorithm or advertisement is going to point the way. I get tons of fun in all sorts of small and specialized ultra-nerdy c…

Okay, so where are they? Show us some. Let's be honest here, how many of these "specialized ultra-nerdy communities" are closed off Discord servers?

To find these spaces, you have to think in reverse. You can’t look for the community first. You have to start by having a specialized interest. You can’t rely on an algorithm to tell you what you care about and how you want to spend the time in your life. That answer has to come from within. Once you have that answer, finding the community online is quite easy.

The way you find them is to search for the creators and other community leaders. For example, let’s say you are interested in a specific video game. Look for the publishers, developers, top players, live streamers, and media coverage of that game. Those people are likely to be hosting or participating in communities that you can join, even if they are closed Discord servers.

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur! Explore the big, bold world outside the internet. Or, on the internet, stop spending your valuable time on bottom-feeder content like medium articles, facebook, twitter/bluesky, rant blogs, news websites etc.

The big, bold world outside the internet is arguably far more locked down, enshittified and regulated than the online world. I mean look at cities, removing parks, benches, trying to make it impossible to even stand without paying for existing. The countryside is all bought up, every inch of grass owned and people itching to tell you to get the fuck off their property. Can't do anything anywhere anymore. You'd have t…

This is a good point, and is depressing on its own...

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#207

The old internet was a more homogenous society, social outcasts and technically capable people who liked interacting with computers. The content was more relatable because it was created by similar types of people. Now the internet is for everyone so the content is for everybody. It's too easy to blame the algorithms when the algorithms are a necessary evil. TikTok has millions of videos uploaded per day. You are not…

> It's too easy to blame the algorithms when the algorithms are a necessary evil. TikTok has millions of videos uploaded per day. You are not going to sort through all of those on your own. I don't necessarily think that people have an issue with the algorithms themselves, more so that all of the platforms that implement them will manipulate and alter it so that you constantly stay engaged. And that boils down to pus…

I think that's fair, the algorithms are manipulative and one has to be very aware of their own susceptibility to it. Everything you specifically mentioned is why I don't go on Twitter to scroll anymore. I will use the platform to search something or I will click links to it but Twitter is not my go-to for scrolling dopamine because it is too negative.

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#208

I agree, but it's been said by all... make homebrew software for an old Nintendo console pick up cross stitching or weaving make an independent film with a friend; use stuff from your kitchen as props find a borderline functional instrument at your local thrift store write a 1 page short story in pen it's not enough anymore to merely criticize this bad time we're having

I swapped to Linux last year and my computer has actually been fun. Bazzite is great. I barely tinker with it if ever and it’s mostly because I feel like it, not out of necessity. I have a very reliable gaming and video editing machine, mostly using open source stuff, and I am in no way a coder/programmer/engineer. I just love using it.

Tinkering with retro consoles has also been very satisfying. I would say more than half of the consoles in my home are modded in some way or another. My kids love it.

Then of course there’s film photography. Talk about a great way to force yourself to be intentional and patient. You can buy any dinky camera and a nifty 50 for like $100, it’ll work just fine. Just get out there and shoot and send off your rolls to be processed. Even just getting one or two good shots out of a roll feels fantastic. Every single photo you take matters and is memorable. It’s refreshing.

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#209
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so where are they? Show us some. Let's be honest here, how many of these "specialized ultra-nerdy communities" are closed off Discord servers?

To find these spaces, you have to think in reverse. You can’t look for the community first. You have to start by having a specialized interest. You can’t rely on an algorithm to tell you what you care about and how you want to spend the time in your life. That answer has to come from within. Once you have that answer, finding the community online is quite easy. The way you find them is to search for the creators and…

They are almost always Discord servers, ruled by terminally online powertripping weirdos who will make your life hell if you even slightly offend them, where knowledge and discussion go to die because none of it is searchable and whatever was being talked about 5 minutes ago is already forgotten.

This has nothing to do with what the internet used to be like.

Re: The fun has been optimized out of the Internet

#210

I agree, but it's been said by all... make homebrew software for an old Nintendo console pick up cross stitching or weaving make an independent film with a friend; use stuff from your kitchen as props find a borderline functional instrument at your local thrift store write a 1 page short story in pen it's not enough anymore to merely criticize this bad time we're having

That seems kind of like a non-sequiter none of that stuff has anything to do with what made the internet special so I don't see how doing so would help either bring the internet back or create a viable alternative.
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