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Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

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Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#201

Post by rootusrootus »

nate wrote: post #14

We probably all have anecdotal evidence here, but my father is a perfect example of being no longer employed and a ton of stuff declining. Yes, cognitively, but a lot of health. We're talking not just your "career". He was a commercial real estate agent. But in his 80s he was working at Menards as a greeter and stocker. And it kept him busy. Getting out of the house. Figuring things out. Meeting and talking to people…

I think it's good advice even if anecdotal. At least I do not think it hurts. My own observation is that almost everyone gets hit hard by the 80s. A lot of people in their 70s are spry, but it seems like damn near everyone gets significant decline in their 80s. A few people make it to the 90s, and some are even relatively spry, but my own anecdotal observations are that it is fairly rare. My grandparents both made it into their mid-90s before the decline really took hold (and then it was fast) but they were outliers. Both of my own parents made it to their mid-80s and that was it.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#202

Post by lenerdenator »

goda90 wrote: post #3

I believe there have been studies into how social life impacts longevity, and probably cognitive decline as well. For some people, like my great-grandmother who kept working well into her 80s by choice, jobs can be a big social outlet. For others a job can be very socially isolating. Those factors probably matter a lot. Side note: I'm sure we'll see research into these areas used to propose delaying retirement age mo…

> Side note: I'm sure we'll see research into these areas used to propose delaying retirement age more in the near future.

I'm sure you could do that just with basic math today.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#203

Post by globalnode »

andai wrote: post #190
devilsdata wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people go from work to nothing on retirement is because work fills up the nearly all of the productive hours of a person's life. If it were to take, let's say 4 days, or six hours a day, people would be so bored, they would be making projects, business ventures, or volunteering. And then on retirement, people would still have their hobbies and passion projects they had been working on their entire life. Th…

Also ADHD here, I have the same problem. The only way I can get anything meaningful done outside of work is to do it before work. Those first few hours of the day are precious, as far as energy goes. Or attention, or will. On a related note, I put Q2 of Eisenhower Matrix (important but not urgent, i.e. the stuff you want to get done "someday" but keep putting off indefinitely... i.e. your hopes and dreams) at the fro…

never heard of the eisenhower matrix but my time management resonates with what you wrote. ill try forcing q2 stuff earlier as well as ive noticed it never gets done! yes, the default outcome is depressing.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#204

Post by tcfhgj »

globalnode wrote: post #198
jandrewrogers wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they would be making projects, business ventures, or volunteering This is not what actually happens in practice. There is no sudden outbreak of productive activity because people have more free time. If this was going to occur there would be mountains of empirical evidence for it by now because this situation isn't rare. I know many people with a lot of free time. In the vast majority of cases, people spend their f…

i think people trying to argue that we would be more productive is a symptom of the productivity disease. where all we value is productivity and thats the only way we can justify more non-work time. i personally just think we should all have more time to do what we want, whether that is being productive on personal projects, talking to people, playing games, or doing nothing. happier people right? why should 10% of t…

The 10% richest people create the jobs for you by cleverly investing you know

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#205

Post by nradov »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #127
WarmWash wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's all just work, all the ways down. What you are describing is working for someone else, but the alternative, working for yourself, is definitely not the dreamy image all the people working for someone else thinks it is. Working for yourself is work + risk, albeit you get to chose (read: try to correctly identify) the work. So no matter what, unless you want blob on the states dime, you are going to spend most…

I think what we've shed are more things like chairing a committee for the VFW, selling snacks at little league games, or being active in a lowers voice, looks over shoulder union. These are things that would traditionally take up the social slack left by not punching a clock every day, and we've eliminated them systematically to make room for more marketized activities. Today's retirees are "richer" than their parent…

Most unions pay their elected officers and administrative staff. Members might volunteer for some activities but the roles that come with a significant time commitment are jobs like any other.

VFW membership has declined because even with continuous wars for decades, the end of conscription has meant a lot fewer veterans. And many VFW halls functioned more like dive bars than anything else: nothing wrong with that, but not particularly attractive to most younger veterans.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#207

Post by phainopepla2 »

deepspace wrote: post #61
cableshaft wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I work from home. Except for 1-2 short zoom calls a day or talking with my wife, who also works from home, I can go pretty much the whole week without talking to anyone. I try to make sure I go out with friends at least once on the weekends, though, to sort of make up for it. But I do wonder if that's going to be a bad thing for me later in my life. But I also play a lot of board games, including somewhat compli…

I used to think that working from home was the best thing since sliced bread, when I got to stop going to the office due to COVID. But during the five years that I worked from home, I suffered a precipitous decline in overall health. It is too easy to stumble out of bed minutes before work starts, spend the day on Zoom calls, then spend more time behind the computer wrapping things up, and then veg out on the sofa af…

Interesting, I've had basically the opposite experience working from home since COVID. I exercise more, cook more, sleep better, go for more walks.

Part of it is just time and energy freed up from my commute. I always felt wiped out after fighting through traffic to get home. But if I lived in a small apartment in a place that wasn't good for walking, I'd probably hate it.

It's good to have options, I suppose.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#208

Post by gitonup »

andix wrote: post #152
SupremumLimit wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? This just proves the point of the grandparent comment. I can think of at least three types of activities off the top of my head: sports (granted, not all of them, but definitely true for my sport - squash), music (playing an instrument in a group setting), and volunteering. I also know people who are in a bridge club with people twice their age. There are still social activities connecting people of different…

All three activities are hobbies. Things people mostly do when they feel good. It's nothing that gives life a purpose. In the past a lot of activities connecting different age groups was a job or job-like too. Working on a farm or a family business together. Running a household and childcare together.

> Things people mostly do when they feel good.

This sounds like an inversion of cause and effect.

> All three activities are hobbies. [...] It's nothing that gives life a purpose.

I find this to be a dire outlook, myself.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#209

Post by absynth »

devilsdata wrote: post #158
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #35

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job. We have created people that never develop as human…

The reason people go from work to nothing on retirement is because work fills up the nearly all of the productive hours of a person's life. If it were to take, let's say 4 days, or six hours a day, people would be so bored, they would be making projects, business ventures, or volunteering. And then on retirement, people would still have their hobbies and passion projects they had been working on their entire life. Th…

If there's a schedule to your tiredness then can probably reschedule it. This is a lesson I've discovered to good effect. [Side note: 2-3pm is probably due to food/glucose/insulin levels - its worth investigating]

Don't be fooled by tiredness. You can be mentally tired but not physically tired. These are not opposites. You can be physically tired in one aspect but not another.

You can be mentally tired but because you like to paint, then painting will regenerate you. It will make you less tired after you paint or even better: have you now appropriately tired that you properly sleep due to that tiredness.

Tired is not tired. You be tired in one way and not in another. This blanket use of the word isn't helpful and leaves a lot of potential left behind as you sit on the couch "tired".

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#210

Post by zoom6628 »

Retirement is an artificial modern construct to create jobs. People are supposed to be active until they die. Hobbies are just a replacement activity. I have no intention of retiring (over 60 already). I work in tech and learning new skills and my income feeds and houses my family and pays for my running shoes.

As other commenters have noted folk in some places don't have anything but work. That is a global social issue that needs addressing first.

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