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Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

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Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#201

Post by embedding-shape »

roughly wrote: post #194
embedding-shape wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blocking IPs was never going to do much to solve the issue. It's a wack-a-mole game. But that in their mind is "solving the issue, at that time". Why do you think they want to expand it to other sports now, because "doesn't do anything" or because they actually see some effect from it? > Blocking one of the biggest providers of internet infra was anything but "the least amount of collateral". Plenty of companies an…

If there’s no reasonable alternative that satisfies their “something must be done” without creating massive negative consequences for the rest of society, then in fact something must not be done, and the large corporate entity will either have to settle for not making as much money as they think they’re entitled to or figure out some other way to recapture those viewers.

> massive negative consequences for the rest of society

What are these "massive negative consequences" you're talking about? Some IPs blocks from Cloudflare are blocked for ~90 minutes, some times a week. As repeated so many times, I agree it sucks, but it's not "internet is unavailable most of the week", it's "some websites are unavailable for some hours of the week".

And also again, if you don't see "something must be done" you're not able to adopt their perspective, so of course you'll never understand this, because you're seemingly refusing to. Fine, you do what you want, but don't mislead others what the real situation is, just because you're unable to grasp it from the other side.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#202

Post by utrack »

embedding-shape wrote: post #99
dbbk wrote: post #65

Genuinely never thought I'd see the day. This has been horrible for me running an event ticketing business in Spain... where downtime is basically not acceptable.

Why would you be using Cloudflare when there are better options, especially if you've known for years that this has been going on? Seems like a poor business decision really. Don't get me wrong, I hate getting blocked just because there is a La Liga game, but lets also take some responsibility for our own decisions here...

Is there a good alternative option for their reverse tunnels/ways to hide my real egress that'll also block the bots?

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#203

Post by hrimfaxi »

878654Tom wrote: post #192
otherme123 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, they just proxy the pirating sites to their true host. They have about the same responsability as the ISP themselves. Maybe you want Cloudflare to decide what to proxy and what to block without a judge ordering it.

Your ISP will route your packets and not obfuscate the original destination nor cache any content, provide Ddos protections, WAF,... Cloudflare does.

> Your ISP will route your packets and not obfuscate the original destination nor cache any content,

That's not true. ISPs modify returned content. https://lukerodgers.ca/2023/12/09/optimum-isp-is-mitming-its... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NebuAd

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#204

Post by wiether »

utrack wrote: post #202
embedding-shape wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you be using Cloudflare when there are better options, especially if you've known for years that this has been going on? Seems like a poor business decision really. Don't get me wrong, I hate getting blocked just because there is a La Liga game, but lets also take some responsibility for our own decisions here...

Is there a good alternative option for their reverse tunnels/ways to hide my real egress that'll also block the bots?

I've used AWS CloudFront & Bunny on some projects

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#205

Post by rtkwe »

jeppester wrote: post #101
rtkwe wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unreasonable to expect cloudflare etc to be able to proactively identify legal vs illegal streams. The companies who own the copyrights can't even get that right much less a third party that has no idea if a stream is licensed.

Why though? Why is it unreasonable to expect a company to have some level of responsibility for serving clients that are using their platform for illegal activity? It the same thing with social media and moderation. We don't have to let them off the hook just because doing the right thing would make them unprofitable.

Because the expectation that companies police every single bit that crosses their network is completely unworkable. It's functionally impossible to tell a licensed stream from an unlicensed stream, the distinction isn't available to Cloudflare or any other networking provider it's in private contracts between the copyright owner and the streaming provider and there's a whole snarl of copyright exceptions.

To make the distinction the LaLiga would want they'd have to inspect every single packet, determine if this is a LaLiga game, determine if it's the current game, and determine if it's a licensed provider. There's a reason section 230 was created in the US.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#206

Post by prmoustache »

devmor wrote: post #137
prmoustache wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The keyword was "some".

In the same way that a roadside lemonade stand run by a child offers some of the same services as a grocery store.

There are plenty of giants that are super relevant in the global market but get their ass kicked in specific markets by the local offering. Like ebay, Uber, Starbucks, Taco Bell or whichever US brand/company you can think of.

Telefónica is nothing globally compared to Cloudflare. But in Spain it competes in some areas. Exactly where this ban is happening.

It is not hard to see a conflict of interest.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#207

Post by allarm »

hrimfaxi wrote: post #203
878654Tom wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ISP will route your packets and not obfuscate the original destination nor cache any content, provide Ddos protections, WAF,... Cloudflare does.

> Your ISP will route your packets and not obfuscate the original destination nor cache any content, That's not true. ISPs modify returned content. https://lukerodgers.ca/2023/12/09/optimum-isp-is-mitming-its... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NebuAd

That's true, at least for most internet service providers. You're just nitpicking for the sake of it.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#208

Post by pier25 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #201
roughly wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there’s no reasonable alternative that satisfies their “something must be done” without creating massive negative consequences for the rest of society, then in fact something must not be done, and the large corporate entity will either have to settle for not making as much money as they think they’re entitled to or figure out some other way to recapture those viewers.

> massive negative consequences for the rest of society What are these "massive negative consequences" you're talking about? Some IPs blocks from Cloudflare are blocked for ~90 minutes, some times a week. As repeated so many times, I agree it sucks, but it's not "internet is unavailable most of the week", it's "some websites are unavailable for some hours of the week". And also again, if you don't see "something must…

> it's not "internet is unavailable most of the week", it's "some websites are unavailable for some hours of the week"

A good chunk of the internet goes through Cloudflare. Something like 40% of the top 1000 websites use it.

Services depend on it (CI etc). SaaS companies are shut down. Businesses can't sell. Etc. It's a disaster. It's amazing how oblivious you seem to the gravity of the situation.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#209

Post by tshaddox »

embedding-shape wrote: post #97
tshaddox wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the Cloudflare network resources in question were not located in Spain and thus not under Spanish jurisduction. Or even if they were, it may be procedurally simpler for the Spanish government to compel ISPs to block IPs.

> it may be procedurally simpler for the Spanish government to compel ISPs to block IPs. The Spanish government is not the ones enforcing the ban here. La Liga and Telefonica went to the judges, who are the ones making ISPs to enforce these blocks, as an intermediate "fix" essentially.

Do you have an English word you can recommend that refers to what (in American English) I call the entire government of a nation?

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#210

Post by tomnipotent »

TRiG_Ireland wrote: post #174
tomnipotent wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters is what the OP was communicating with it, and in English it means all state bodies responsible for administration. No one would argue the US Supreme Court is not part of the government.

No. That's what it means in the USA. Judges are not part of the government in the UK, Ireland, Australia, or New Zealand either. They're part of the State.

You and others are confusing definition for meaning. An HN rule asks people to engage with the best interpretation of someones argument, in which case it's very clear what the OP was communicating by using "government" where you might use "state", and it's clear from responses that folks clearly know that but have decided to argue over pointless semantics that engage with the posters meaning. Not a single comment tried to engage with the comment with good intentions, so focused on "I gotcha!" vibes over unproductive pedantry. How pointless and petty.
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