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Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

road.cc

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Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#201

Post by googlehater »

Stratoscope wrote: post #103

I won't comment on the pick up / drop off situation, but another important scenario is right turns. In California, drivers are legally required to merge into the bike lane when making a right turn. This is for the safety of the bicyclists, to avoid the dreaded "right hook" collision. Dylan Taylor, a beloved Menlo-Atherton High School football coach, was killed last year in one of these collisions: https://www.almanac…

As soon as I saw that headline I knew it had to be on Middlefield... lo and behold. I've been aalmost hit there twice and actually hit there once. once with a car taking a left. another with a car taking a right

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#202

Post by kelnos »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #174
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure it went something like “so where are we allowed to pickup and drop off riders” and the city couldn’t answer. The problem isn’t really enforcement, the problem is that there are simply no alternatives, and the city shies away from enforcement because they know that. If they started enforcing the rules strictly, people would again ask questions that they aren’t prepared to answer. If you compare that to…

> The problem isn’t really enforcement The problem is street-side parking.

Street side parking is fine. You can move the parking out a few feet and put the bike lane between the ordering and curb. Works well where I've seen it.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#203

Post by iamcalledrob »

valicord wrote: post #190
amiga386 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the case. As you just read in the article: https://highwaycode.org.uk/rule-140/ > Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation. Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable. You MUST NOT park in any cycle lane whilst waiting restrictions apply. La…

You've quoted the rules which forbid parking and driving in the bike lane and then went on to confidently make up the part about stopping and dropping people off.

In UK highway terminology, you're "driving" in the bike lane if your vehicle enters it.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#204

Post by kelnos »

doug_durham wrote: post #189
danny_codes wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems irrelevant, we’re talking about cars. Also, of course bikers don’t follow car rules. Those rules are nonsensical for cyclists.

In the US, bikes == cars. They are required to follow the same rules. I don’t find them nonsensical.

I used to agree with that (as a pedestrian and driver only), but as I've started cycling, I've begun to realize that many rules of the road, intended for cars, just don't make much sense for bicycles.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#205

Post by coryrc »

doug_durham wrote: post #189
danny_codes wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems irrelevant, we’re talking about cars. Also, of course bikers don’t follow car rules. Those rules are nonsensical for cyclists.

In the US, bikes == cars. They are required to follow the same rules. I don’t find them nonsensical.

In Washington State, they're required to follow most car rules when in a lane, but not all (i.e. all stop signs are yield for cyclists). They also have a set of rules allowing for sidewalk usage when mounted; when dismounted, they follow pedestrian rules (obviously).

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#206

Post by defrost »

crazygringo wrote: post #188
daemonologist wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going around a parked car is not merely an inconvenience, it introduces an extra risk of being hit from behind (obviously you should check over your shoulder before moving into the lane, but this is the imperfect real world, and even the act of checking over your shoulder is a small risk) or by a vehicle pulling out of a cross street which didn't see you through the stopped car. However I agree that there isn't an ob…

No. Going around a parked car is a basic ability you need to have as a cyclist. If you can't do that safely, then you have no business riding in the first place. Looking behind you is not optional, as you seem to suggest it is. And if it is actually a "small risk", then you are going way too fast. Again -- if you don't have the environmental awareness to go around a parked car, then you shouldn't be riding a bicycle…

This comment assumes a high mix of cars and bikes in an environment of unseparated traffic.

With literal decades of near daily bike riding behind me I've rarely had to maneuver a bike or a car around a parked car in regular (not US) traffic flow.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#207

Post by themafia »

spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

You're comparing the actions of individuals with the actions of a for-profit company. These are not compatible.

The expectations are that if you are driving for profit then you are held to a higher standard. Waymo wants to publicly excuse it's way out of this expectation for their own convenience. The way any common sociopath or selfish child would.

Slow down and stop breaking things.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#208

Post by Saline9515 »

jlebar wrote: post #183
CrimsonRain wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when you do that, (most) cyclists behind you get angry. (Most) cyclists are rude and act like they own the road.

> (Most) cyclists are rude and act like they own the road. I would bet you an arbitrary sum of money that 51% of cyclists are not rude and don't act like they own the road. (Same for drivers.) https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/salience-bias

Given the sheer amount of cyclist who think that cars should be banned with no consideration for anything else, I think that this is a common observation.

Where I live, the pro-cyclist mayor (whose husband owns a bike rental shop, by pure coincidence) closed a road for cars without consultation, now the firemen along with residents are protesting because emergency and delivery vehicles can't access a large part of the city (car parked can't get out!). This is the average behavior you can expect from militant cyclists, from my experience.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#209

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dangus wrote: post #191
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo and other taxi services are inherently bad for cyclists compared to increasing transit utilization Anecdote: I take transit way more in San Francisco with Waymo. Because booking is deterministic (it says 20 minutes, it will be there in 20 minutes, even if it’s a short ride), I can connect with the loose network of city and regional rail systems in a way that was tedious with human drivers. (I lived in New Yor…

Which, again, is a band-aid to bad regional transit connectivity.

> a band-aid to bad regional transit connectivity

Maybe. American suburbs are already spread out. It doesn’t make sense to run subways to every corner the way we do in urban centers. Doing last mile with shared transport—versus cars which park idle for most of the day around train stations—makes sense.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#210

Post by saagarjha »

SilverElfin wrote: post #121
spankalee wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe drivers should stop thinking they're the center of the universe and consider pedestrians and bicyclists around them. It's more dangerous to block a bike lane, with the more vulnerable user, than a car lane. Other drivers can wait.

It’s not dangerous to block a bike lane. The bikers can wait. They are fewer in number and inconveniencing them is less problematic. If they’re worried about being vulnerable, they are free to ride at low speeds on the sidewalk, or just not use a bicycle.

Riding at slow speeds on the sidewalk is illegal, similar to driving at low speeds through the bike lane.
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