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Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

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Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#201

Post by Folcon »

Ygg2 wrote: post #191
Folcon wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I don't disagree with you in this case, but if not this, then to a degree, what is IP for? This just happens to be a positive example, IP still exists to restrict certain kinds of competition I mean you can't get a clearer case of copycatting than this, as much as I'm a fan of pirate servers, assuming that they don't stifle the original game and considering calling Blizzard an 800 pound gorilla is quite an un…

> I mean you can't get a clearer case of copycatting than this I'm pretty sure Turtle WoW has its own storyline, quests, etc. The story focuses heavily on extending Vanilla. In other words, it's not a simple copycat but a fan project. Rather than hiring and vying for talent, Blizzard is CnD their fans away.

That's what I mean by a positive example

A fan project still encroaches and Blizzard as many have pointed out is well within their rights to do this

In case I wasn't clear enough, I'm not a fan of this move, I don't think it's a good thing they're doing, however I can't deny they can choose to do it

If we want their behaviour to be constrained, then we've got to either convince them otherwise, regulate away their ability to do this or weaken copyright to prevent this

That's the reality of the situation

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#202

Post by lachtan »

Subdivide8452 wrote: post #179
saadn92 wrote: post #29

I ran a private server years ago. Two things people in this thread are getting wrong: The engineering is way harder than anyone gives credit for. You're reverse engineering a server protocol from the client binary, writing your own spell systems (thousands of spells, each with edge cases), pathing, instancing, combat mechanics. Then scaling it for a few thousand concurrent players on hardware you're paying for out of…

Out of curiosity, as a fellow dev I'm interested in how you go about reverse engineering these types of things. I assume for networking, you keep track of what goes in and out of the live game. How do you go about pathing? How do you reverse engineer spells, how they scale over levels, and how bosses work, when they spawn, and how they spawn (based on non time based factors) ?

In WoW specifically, I'll chime in with some things I know about: - the WoW client contains a lot of stuff in their DBC (DataBase Client) files (for example spells and their effects, talents, achievements, etc), which you can extract (the file formats used are basically unchanged and well known since first WoW came out) - the client also uses WDB Cache files which contain things the player has encountered (creatures, items, quests), and volunteer players then send these files to projects like TrinityCore (probably the best known server emulator), which use them to build databases - for dungeon/boss scripting specifically, there's a lot of guilds competing for "world firsts" on official servers who collect a ton of information about boss behaviour, they then use that to develop addons, which help their players when actually doing the boss. then, when you want to implement the boss scripting in TrinityCore (or other emulator), these addons provide a decent starting point for things like abilities and their times, boss phases, etc. afterwards, volunteers report differences they encounter on official servers vs emulators in boss behavior

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#203

Post by lachtan »

rustyhancock wrote: post #60
saadn92 wrote: post #29

I ran a private server years ago. Two things people in this thread are getting wrong: The engineering is way harder than anyone gives credit for. You're reverse engineering a server protocol from the client binary, writing your own spell systems (thousands of spells, each with edge cases), pathing, instancing, combat mechanics. Then scaling it for a few thousand concurrent players on hardware you're paying for out of…

I was hoping to try out Turtle last summer but didn't get around to it. And had looked into Azerothcore. I hope turtle open sources (if they haven't already and they are allowed to). I do think part of the problem is payment to cover dev time is actually profit. I profit from work, although they are just paying me for my time really.

Payment to devs could be considered profit, but profit for the actual people, not the project as a whole and its owners. Also, remember, it's still work, even if it's work on a game. There are reasons not to call pay you get from work "profit"

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#204

Post by PetitPrince »

Lapra wrote: post #183

I'm fairly certain there would be no Classic WoW without private servers to show Blizzard there was a demand. They seemed embarrassed about the entire concept. Same with emulation, really; had that not been developed, I doubt Nintendo would care about their back catalogue.

> Same with emulation, really; had that not been developed, I doubt Nintendo would care about their back catalogue.

I agree with the previous point (no WoW classic without private server), I'm a bit more doubtful about Nintendo. They did remakes before it was cool (see: Super Mario All Stars), and the Super Nintendo -> Gameboy Advance pipeline was well received.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#205

Post by Ekaros »

SlightlyLeftPad wrote: post #28
Someone1234 wrote: post #6

Just background in case you don't know: Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike, but in doing so wound up creating a bunch of new mechanics, and a gameplay loop that was quite unique even relative to other Roguelikes. So my position on this is; two things can be true at the same time: - Turtle WoW violated Blizzard's copyright, tried to charge money for some services, and Blizzard are well…

Why not just buy it then? It reminds me of Valve’s treatment of Black Mesa, which made the community love the company even more. It’d be hilariously easy for Blizzard to spend some money on the thing and just buy the devs out, fans love you for it and it builds good will with a fanbase. Corporations can’t see past the legal aspect of things I guess.

Also with Valve. Pretty much everyone who was going to buy the game already had it. So allowing something new really didn't impact their revenue in any significant way. With subscription games this is really not true.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#206

Post by Fokamul »

Private server exists because Blizzard is full of idiots now. My whole friend group would never touch anything managed by Blizzard, they're buffoons and all talented people left long ago after WotlK expansion.

Now Blizzard only milks current players(cows) and also let others to freely bot and sell gold for real money to people.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#207

Post by Fokamul »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #172
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #112

Once again, someone is doing Blizzard’s work better than Blizzard, so naturally they have to be punished. Last time, they even shut down a few major Classic servers before realizing that people had gone there because they did not want to play Blizzard’s shit mutilated version of the game they loved. All we can do is hope Blizzard copies this idea in time as well. Activision Blizzard is, without a doubt, one of the wo…

Which idea? Offering someone else's product for free by copying 99% of the effort?

Everything what Blizzard did in the last 20 years is just big pile of steaming BS.

So your idea, they copied their recent work is just ...

Other than that, I'm fan of Blizzard, mainly because of their relation to botting :) :) :)

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#208

Post by icar »

I know I will be flagged, and it doesn't add anything of value to the conversation, but: From every single private server WoW player out there, a sincerely Fuck You Blizzard is in place. This sentiment is shared among all of us, and it's been there for decades. Keep shutting us down, more will come.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#209

Post by michaelcampbell »

Someone1234 wrote: post #6

Just background in case you don't know: Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike, but in doing so wound up creating a bunch of new mechanics, and a gameplay loop that was quite unique even relative to other Roguelikes. So my position on this is; two things can be true at the same time: - Turtle WoW violated Blizzard's copyright, tried to charge money for some services, and Blizzard are well…

> Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike,

Can you expand on this a bit? Examples on its new mechanics, etc?

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#210

Post by p0w3n3d »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #198
saadn92 wrote: post #29

I ran a private server years ago. Two things people in this thread are getting wrong: The engineering is way harder than anyone gives credit for. You're reverse engineering a server protocol from the client binary, writing your own spell systems (thousands of spells, each with edge cases), pathing, instancing, combat mechanics. Then scaling it for a few thousand concurrent players on hardware you're paying for out of…

> ran a private server years ago. Do you share any code then?

I'll answer myself - there are some projects available on github so nothing scarce, really. I just wonder how much does it take to set it up. And also the loneliness there would be unbearable (turtle wow was quite populated, so Auction House would pose some value)
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