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Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

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Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#201

Post by acidtechno303 »

Alive-in-2025 wrote: post #195
runjake wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, something I'm somewhat qualified to answer! So, yes, these systems are actually effective. The systems and procedures are designed to look low key, but essentially perform PRISM-like mass surveillance behind the scene. These systems are managed by former US IC personnel. What happens is that your identity is tied to these purchases and after a certain threshold you get flagged as a thief, essentially. At that po…

But what if you don't steal anything but the system is messed up. I had a case where I bought multiple things at a big hardware store, self checkout of course, and on my ticket was something I didn't notice. Because I bought a lot I didn't notice until a month later when I looked at the ticket and returned something else. Should I tell them or not, will I be some kind of weird situation? I hate self checkout. At my g…

I've had awkward interactions with the Walmart system. It's clearly using a neural net, and a good one at that. It's only ever flagged me when I did something odd (like put something bagged and paid for in my cart, then take it out, then put it back again). I dress/groom like a thief, so the conversations with the staff are always annoying.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#202

Post by forgotaccount3 »

conductr wrote: post #109
compton93 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's crazy. But coming from someone who wrote a book on retail fraud and worked as a retail fraud analyst for several years... you could have just walked straight out with those items. Transacting was your way of leaving a calling card for the investigators/analysts to find you... You stole regardless of how you did it.

The visual risk of walking out without paying is much greater than the risk that anyone actually investigates AND tries to track him down for it. Back when I was a kid it was common to still just have simple price tag stickers on every single item. We’d pull off a cheap sticker and put it on an expensive item. If they noticed, we’d just shrug and say “oh Nevermind then” when they found the right price. The only probl…

> The visual risk of walking out without paying is much greater than the risk that anyone actually investigates AND tries to track him down for it.

So scan everything, then put it in the cart and walk off without putting in the credit card. Again, both are stealing but paying some fake, reduced rate is leaving your calling card at the scene of a crime.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#203

Post by data-ottawa »

I’m very surprised here.

I worked in retail many years, including doing store shelf tear downs and replacement and night shift stocking.

Back in the day we would get our planograms from HQ, then we’d print out all the labels on perforated paper, and walk the shelves moving product and updating the price tags, throwing out the old. The epaper tags are very clearly an improvement to that process in both time and waste. We would also check the prices using a Motorola price gun and do our fixes manually and then print out new tags or update the counts.

I’m surprised these tags are just IR blasted with no security. I would have expected they’d need some sort of code and you would simply save the code on your gun, pop a tag in front of a product, scan the product, then pair the tag all on your price gun in like 3 actions.

I also would have thought in these days we’d use Bluetooth beacons to triangulate the shelf slot too so that HQ could have a realtime map against their planos (it was not uncommon a product’s size would change and the layout would have holes or products that don’t fit on your real shelf).

Anyways, neat project! Triggered a walk down memory lane for me.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#204

Post by runjake »

acidtechno303 wrote: post #201
Alive-in-2025 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if you don't steal anything but the system is messed up. I had a case where I bought multiple things at a big hardware store, self checkout of course, and on my ticket was something I didn't notice. Because I bought a lot I didn't notice until a month later when I looked at the ticket and returned something else. Should I tell them or not, will I be some kind of weird situation? I hate self checkout. At my g…

I've had awkward interactions with the Walmart system. It's clearly using a neural net, and a good one at that. It's only ever flagged me when I did something odd (like put something bagged and paid for in my cart, then take it out, then put it back again). I dress/groom like a thief, so the conversations with the staff are always annoying.

If you dress like your HN username indicates, then yeah, you're probably noticed by humans before you get into the store.

Ironically, some of the store security look exactly like you. They come in all shapes, sizes, grooming standards, styles, and tattoo levels. I've seen some in full-on Juggalo outfits and neck/face tattoos.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#205

Post by ornornor »

wincy wrote: post #189
lamasery wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just that, getting unpaid labor. Self-checkouts aren’t automating anything, they’re just making the shopper do work for the store. I hope they’re losing money over it.

I cannot count the number of times I’ve explicitly said “don’t mix the raw meats with other products in the bags” only for the cashier to completely ignore me. This happened at a high end organic grocer the other day (after I had specifically and nicely asked) and I talked to the manager. He ran and got me replacements for my produce that was tucked into the grocery bag right next to my ground beef and raw chicken br…

> Surely they teach this to the cashiers.

Do you mean the “we’ll take anyone with a pulse”, “pay them as little as possible”, “they’re a cost center” cashiers? Yes I’m sure the company invests extensive time and money into training.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#206

Post by joemi »

squibonpig wrote: post #111
petterroea wrote: post #55

It's always funny when people publish source code and have a disclaimer saying "You CANNOT use it for bad!". When is the last time a criminal read such a disclaimer and thought "Oh right, guess this isn't for me"? Sure, at least the developer can say they did say so, but it doesn't matter. To me it seems more like avoiding responsibility. You published the tool, and by doing so you changed the world, even minutely, a…

Yeah but like it's fine if two people use a flipper zero to get cheaper groceries. That's not actually a bad thing.

Who do you think feels the effect of fraud/theft at retail stores? The "rich" owners feel a little of it, sure, but they have a proven strategy for keeping their profits up by reducing costs: fire employees and make those who remain do more work for the same pay. So you think this is "not actually a bad thing" because you're screwing over but really you're just screwing over the workers.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#207

Post by Marsymars »

forgotaccount3 wrote: post #202
conductr wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The visual risk of walking out without paying is much greater than the risk that anyone actually investigates AND tries to track him down for it. Back when I was a kid it was common to still just have simple price tag stickers on every single item. We’d pull off a cheap sticker and put it on an expensive item. If they noticed, we’d just shrug and say “oh Nevermind then” when they found the right price. The only probl…

> The visual risk of walking out without paying is much greater than the risk that anyone actually investigates AND tries to track him down for it. So scan everything, then put it in the cart and walk off without putting in the credit card. Again, both are stealing but paying some fake, reduced rate is leaving your calling card at the scene of a crime.

> So scan everything, then put it in the cart and walk off without putting in the credit card.

I actually saw someone do this a couple weeks ago.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#208

Post by Loughla »

runjake wrote: post #142
neuralkoi wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I went to Walmart, and at the self-checkout the system quirked out and an attendant came by. She reviewed some sort of draconian overhead cam video of me trying to locate a tag out for a product to scan. Gave me "guilty until proven" innocent vibes. Are these systems actually effective?

Hey, something I'm somewhat qualified to answer! So, yes, these systems are actually effective. The systems and procedures are designed to look low key, but essentially perform PRISM-like mass surveillance behind the scene. These systems are managed by former US IC personnel. What happens is that your identity is tied to these purchases and after a certain threshold you get flagged as a thief, essentially. At that po…

It flagged my for entering quantities of an item instead of scanning each individual item. It wouldn't let me pay until a human looked through my bags. There is a quantity key. I used the quantity key.

I'm not sure it's the super system it's sold as.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#209

Post by Aurornis »

Alive-in-2025 wrote: post #195
runjake wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, something I'm somewhat qualified to answer! So, yes, these systems are actually effective. The systems and procedures are designed to look low key, but essentially perform PRISM-like mass surveillance behind the scene. These systems are managed by former US IC personnel. What happens is that your identity is tied to these purchases and after a certain threshold you get flagged as a thief, essentially. At that po…

But what if you don't steal anything but the system is messed up. I had a case where I bought multiple things at a big hardware store, self checkout of course, and on my ticket was something I didn't notice. Because I bought a lot I didn't notice until a month later when I looked at the ticket and returned something else. Should I tell them or not, will I be some kind of weird situation? I hate self checkout. At my g…

In the fraud/theft detection I had some experience with, everyone learns right away that mistakes happen all the time. Singular incidents are basically not worth investigating unless something about them is highly unusual, like an unusually large dollar amount or aligning with a scam that has become popular.

When I watched movies and TV shows I had this idea that thieves were all clever people who built smart systems to evade detection and steal right out from under big corporations. Some of those people might be out there operating undetected, but the average thief who gets caught is someone trying to abuse something as much as they can until they get caught. Some of them are so brazen (like the scan everything as bananas post above) that they must believe that nobody will ever check and if they do get caught nothing bad will happen.

The staff who watch these things have a good sense of what dollar thresholds the customer must cross before getting law enforcement involved.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#210

Post by ornornor »

rickdeckard wrote: post #10
weli wrote: post #8

This is pretty dangerous. At least in my country the displayed price must be honored and they cannot refuse the sale.

Usually the advertised price must be honored, because it may have brought the customer to your store. For prices displayed on the shelf-label inside the store the law is usually not that strict (YMMV), as a shop-owner can refuse sale on check-out (otherwise I could put a pricetag on e.g. a shopping-basket and the shop-owner would be legally required to sell me the basket...). Besides, most shops I've seen (in Europe)…

Very much depends where. In QC, if it rings higher than tagged in the store you get the first one for free and the next ones at the lower price. They take it VERY seriously as a result and will take the tag down while they make a new one to ensure nobody else gets a freebie.

Stores hate giving the product away and pricing errors are much lower in my experience.

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