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College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

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Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#201

Post by bawolff »

ransom1538 wrote: post #194
kcexn wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with exams is that everyone has a bad experience with a poorly written one. Well-written exams will have questions that test students at different levels of understanding across the whole curriculum. So a student who only understands the basics should be able to answer most of the easy questions and students who have a deeper understanding can answer the harder ones. Well-written exams should feel pretty…

Every class. Teachers think: "We want a curve, not everyone is getting an A". This pushes the teacher to ask questions not covered in the material. If they stick to what is covered it is hard to get a decent curve. So, in the end, teachers just hand out grades based on IQ, and there isn't a point of grades.

Courses aren't supposed to be pure memorization. If you can only answer questions directly covered in the material but can't apply it to new situations, you should not get an A.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#202

Post by breve »

Our_Benefactors wrote: post #199
breve wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? And after all that money you paid them? The nerve!

Your worldview sucks. Essentially claiming that in order to receive information, you must also receive garbage useless information to brainwash you.

No, complaining about something offered for free because of a minor pop up is what sucks. It's a bizarre sense of entitlement.

If you don't like the website, simply don't use it. Especially when you're making no contribution to it.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#203

Post by CSSer »

hawaiianbrah wrote: post #185
CSSer wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exams almost filtered me out of this industry before I even got started. I later went on to be a lead developer! I went to a rural high school with a poor math curriculum. I understood the concepts, but I was slow. When I got to undergrad, my first calc professor gave us a 60 question test with 50 minutes of allotted time. He told us if we couldn't do the problems fast enough we weren't cut out for the work and it wo…

What does W mean? Withdraw?

Yes. You can do it a set number of times, opting to either retake the course for a better grade or simply not take it again. Either way it shows on your transcript.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#204

Post by bawolff »

eudamoniac wrote: post #196
nradov wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Syntax is trivial and irrelevant for teaching CS theory.

Do you think spelling is trivial and irrelevant in a foreign language class?

That's a poor comparison given they said CS theory.

I could easily imagine a CS theory course that doesn't involve any programming language at all.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#205

Post by Swizec »

fl4regun wrote: post #190
Swizec wrote: post #5

When I was in college, your grade fully depended on the oral exam/debate with the professor. Everything else was but the entry ticket. Not sure anyone even attempted to cheat in that scenario. And the conversations were usually great, although very stressful for us cramming types

I think the oral exam is probably a great way to ascertain a student's ability, but let's be real, undergraduate class sizes numbers in the hundreds, for almost every first year class. I don't think it's possible to administer that. I think I would have loved to see that in my later years at university though, we still just did things by written exam + course work.

> let's be real, undergraduate class sizes numbers in the hundreds, for almost every first year class. I don't think it's possible to administer that

Our first year class was about 250 people. It was fine.

By the 4th year, class sizes were a much more manageable 30 to 50.

You get maybe 10 to 15 minutes with the professor (usually more in later years), they ask 3 questions with some followup. That’s 1 work week for the professor. And less than half the students even make it that far for every exam season (3 per school year) so you’re looking at something like 3 days of work. It’s fine.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#206

Post by nradov »

Aurornis wrote: post #161
nsyne wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally dislike placing a heavy emphasis on exams. Assignments/projects have been consistently the most enjoyable and rewarding parts of the courses I've taken so far in university. It's a shame that they are also way more susceptible to cheating with AI.

> It's a shame that they are also way more susceptible to cheating with AI. They were more prone to cheating before AI, too. Cheating has always existed at some level, but from talking to my couple of friends who teach undergrad level courses the attitudes of students toward cheating have been changing even before AI was everywhere. They would complain about cohorts coming through where cheating was obvious and rampa…

Those students will go on to "cheat" in job interviews. And the sad thing is that many of them will never face any consequences because the majority of jobs at large companies don't require any actual competence. The college degree allows them to check a box on job applications but the jobs don't actually depend on anything learned in college.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#207

Post by nradov »

jimbokun wrote: post #193
Aurornis wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a shame that they are also way more susceptible to cheating with AI. They were more prone to cheating before AI, too. Cheating has always existed at some level, but from talking to my couple of friends who teach undergrad level courses the attitudes of students toward cheating have been changing even before AI was everywhere. They would complain about cohorts coming through where cheating was obvious and rampa…

I wonder if the companies hiring students from those universities have come to understand there’s no guarantee they learned any of the material.

The dirty secret in HR is that performance in most regular jobs doesn't really depend on having learned anything in college. Companies only require a college degree to filter the candidate pool down to a manageable level. Line managers know they'll have to train entry level hires on almost everything.

IBM used to hire software developers based on aptitude test scores regardless of formal education, then put them through an extensive internal training program. It worked fine.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#208

Post by [deleted] »

bawolff wrote: post #201
ransom1538 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every class. Teachers think: "We want a curve, not everyone is getting an A". This pushes the teacher to ask questions not covered in the material. If they stick to what is covered it is hard to get a decent curve. So, in the end, teachers just hand out grades based on IQ, and there isn't a point of grades.

Courses aren't supposed to be pure memorization. If you can only answer questions directly covered in the material but can't apply it to new situations, you should not get an A.

[deleted]

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#209

Post by margalabargala »

pesus wrote: post #170
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #122

In one of my classes the approach was the opposite, I’m expected to do Ph.D level work as an undergrad and am expected to use AI. In a different one she just said so long as you say AI was used you’re fine to use it. In the rest of them AI is considered cheating. To say we have discrepancies in the rules in an understatement. No one seems to have the exact answer on how to do it. I personally feel like expecting Ph.D…

I'm really not seeing how you can do PhD level work as an undergrad. You wouldn't have the foundational knowledge necessary to do PhD level work, and you have no idea how much of what you're learning is accurate.

It's not terribly uncommon for an undergrad to claim they're doing "PhD level work".

Undergrad research is pretty common and it's not all that hard to get your name on a paper as an undergrad. A lot of undergrads think that doing work that gets your name on a paper, equates to PhD level work.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#210

Post by nradov »

WoodenChair wrote: post #156
antonymoose wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that but I was a Class of 2013, aka during the massive hiring boom of the teens. I tutored a friend of mine with a Ds get Degrees mentality who eventually graduated and now works an ass-in-seat job for Booz Allen or one of those types. I used to joke about it with another friend, that his diploma ought to include an asterisk and a half dozen other names for how much we ultimately did on his grades take homes.…

I agree with your premise about why accurate evaluation matters, but your post comes across as pretty bitter. Unless you’re at the job with him, you really don’t know that it’s a “I just need to show up” job he has at Booz Allen. Perhaps he has other great traits like a high social or emotional intelligence that make him good at his job beyond whatever was being evaluated on those projects you helped him with.

I think you're missing the point. The majority of jobs at companies like Booz Allen are sort of like Kabuki theater and don't require any technical competence. The main responsibilities are to show up on time and present a certain image to customers.
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