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Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

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Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#201

Post by thiagoeh »

temp0826 wrote: post #178
throwaway132448 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about South America as a homogeneous unit is… weird. Even neighbouring countries speaking the same language can be entirely different in this regard.

I agree (and I don't normally generalize like this, so I apologize). I've spent most of my time in Peru but noticed it in neighboring countries as well.

That also is my perception, from Brazil. There is even the concept of "cordial man", coined by sociologist Sergio Buarque d Holanda, that is connected to this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordial_man

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#202

Post by fwipsy »

BeetleB wrote: post #188
ghssds wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (No real spoilers in my comment): > Proceed to spoil the whole game

What did I spoil? That you keep dying? They'll encounter that very early in the game. And if you look around, you'll see that quite a few quit the game because they didn't understand that dying is normal. The lack of knowledge about the other two items I mentioned are also reasons people stopped playing the game. If you don't know them, the game becomes an incredible drag . Even I would have quit if I didn't know abo…

You revealed the central conceit of the game. In my opinion, discovering that is an important part of the experience of playing the game, even if it's very early, and even though I did find it initially frustrating. The Steam page doesn't reveal that, and they have an incentive to make the Steam page fairly revealing in order to sell you on the game.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#203

Post by andriy_koval »

temp0826 wrote: post #139
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #37

>INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER Boy, it sure would be nice if real LLMs were capable of giving an answer like that.

Living in South America a bit really showed me this. I think it's a cultural thing here but someone will always give you an answer, even if it's wrong, confidently . It was hard for me at first- I am usually the first person to say "I don't know" (often followed by "but let's slow down and find a good solution").

> someone will always give you an answer, even if it's wrong, confidently

its common playbook for corporate self-development in NA.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#204

Post by bilsbie »

wat10000 wrote: post #170
bilsbie wrote: post #93

I tell my kids, there’s a God out there for everyone. The last question God might be for you If you’re super rational and are really into technology. Belief in God is like a supermarket. Once you decide to enter you’re probably going to find something that works for you.

How does this fit with those of us who found one, then later on decided it was silly and gave up the whole idea?

Good question. Perhaps you found the wrong one?

I mean there’s such a wide selection you can even believe in simulations these days.

Or if that’s still too much there’s always the Pascal’s wager God. Still better than nothing.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#205

Post by jeremyjh »

LPisGood wrote: post #186
jeremyjh wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what a base model does. After RL it is a very different thing, and anyone who says they know what it is, is naive or dishonest. These things are grown, not made, and we really do not understand how they work in many important ways.

Yeah, but they’re not magic; we can still do experiments and see what happens. Anthropic did a lot of work on this and showed that they’re not accurately describing their reasoning process.

Of course, the fact that they have to do that proves my point.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#206

Post by itmitica »

In school, humans rarely answer with "I don't know" when faced by teachers.

LLMs are the same, to that regard, they answer to the best of their abilities.

It's ones individual job to inform and reason. The problem solving in school is about that. Lean into your formal education. It tells you learning gets harder and harder and it never stops.

This is a novel. It's not an absolute truth, it's anecdotal and basic, simplified to make a point majority will understand. It sounds like truth only if you never question written knowledge. You should. Asimov wrote that to the best of its abilities. He explored. He opened a conversation, he did not hand a verdict in.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#207

Post by wat10000 »

bilsbie wrote: post #204
wat10000 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this fit with those of us who found one, then later on decided it was silly and gave up the whole idea?

Good question. Perhaps you found the wrong one? I mean there’s such a wide selection you can even believe in simulations these days. Or if that’s still too much there’s always the Pascal’s wager God. Still better than nothing.

Why bother, though? What does trying to believe in this ill-defined entity do for me?

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#208

Post by waltbosz »

Aerolfos wrote: post #198
waltbosz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the software running multivac represents something vastly more advanced than today's LLM. I wonder if Asimov considered multivac to be an ancestor to his positronic robots, or if the two exist in different universes. I don't recall the two ever appearing in the same story.

> I wonder if Asimov considered multivac to be an ancestor to his positronic robots, or if the two exist in different universes. I don't recall the two ever appearing in the same story. I can't remember if the machines in "the evitable conflict" are ever called VACs, they might be. The themes in that story do for sure overlap with the story "Franchise" (which is explicitly multivac). Anyway the multivac from last que…

The World Co-ordinator in "the evitable conflict" was a positronic robot (not known to the public), but I think you're right that the machines are never identified as either positronic robots or VACs. But iirc, in the Susan Calvin universe (of which "the evitable conflict" is a part), robots were generally illegal on Earth, the that must make the machines in that story non-robots.

I would say the multivac in "Franchise" is the same Mutlivac as "Last Question" and "all the troubles of the world" (one of my favorites). There are no positronic robots in "Franchise", nor the others.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#209

Post by m-p-3 »

jjice wrote: post #47

An absolute classic! Was just telling a buddy about this one the other day while talking about The Egg by Andy Weir (another short story I really enjoy). Every time I read this one, I get chills at the end. Asimov really was a master.

The Jaunt by Stephen King is another of my favorite

https://readsonlinefree.com/stephen-king/308254-the_jaunt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt

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