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The Importance of Being Idle

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Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#201

Post by latexr »

quirk wrote: post #188
latexr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that he saw machines as working for the greater good of all, yet the reality we have are machines working for the benefit of a select few, who use that advantage to perpetuate the system where they are at the top and everyone is below. We have the technology to feed and clothe everyone and live comfortably, just not the collective will. Too many of us have been sold the fake idea that “everyone can make…

This is so full of holes I don't even know where to start. But the main one is that you have a false dichotomy in assuming that individual success and "helping everyone do better" are mutually exclusive. For example, see the free market economy of the past 250 years.

> This is so full of holes I don't even know where to start.

I recommend you start by understanding the argument instead of straw manning it.

> But the main one is that you have a false dichotomy in assuming that individual success and "helping everyone do better" are mutually exclusive.

So your main objection against my point is an argument I haven’t made? There is a canyon of difference between “we have been sold idea X” and “idea Y and Z are incompatible”. Of course you can have individual success while helping everyone do better, because if you help everyone do better you also help yourself. That’s obvious, you are part of everyone.

> For example, see the free market economy of the past 250 years.

Yeah, that really helps everyone, that one there. No problems whatsoever that anyone can think of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market#Criticism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_capitalism

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#202

Post by jltsiren »

artirdx wrote: post #136
lmf4lol wrote: post #35

I really do like the idea and the thinking behind it. I wpuld even argue that modern Europeans are already embracing and practicing much if it. Nearly no one I know in NL and DE works more than 36hrs per week. And we all have a sh”tload of holidays and irregular days off additionally. Need to get kids from school earlier? no prob… Need to spontanously (!) to go the dentist? no prob. (Honest disclaimer: I am talking h…

Europe is not behind because Europeans are working less and taking more vacations. This message that is being loudly broadcasted hides the real problem. Europe is behind because we do not have good leadership. The decisions taken by leadership, no matter what level you look at - local, company, national, supranational - are rarely in the best interest of Europeans. Our markets - housing, rental, labor, capital, pensi…

I don't think the issue is the lack of good leadership.

Europe, and particularly the EU, is effectively governed by people who think like administrators. In politics, in business, and in the actual administration. On some level, this is a good thing. The core republican principle is that leaders should be disposable servants, because actual leaders never have the public's best interests in mind. Except maybe temporarily or by accident.

The problem is that administrators tend to propose administrative solutions to the issues they have identified. Because they think like administrators. Sometimes this works, and sometimes it doesn't. Most successes and failures of the EU can be traced back to this tendency to enact administrative solutions. There would be more successes and fewer failures if the administrators could somehow learn to predict when an administrative solution is not the right tool.

Housing markets, labor markets, and pension systems are regional, and the situation in each region is different. Capital markets are also regional to some extent, but perhaps they shouldn't be. Pay is a matter of perspective. You can say that Europeans lack well-paying jobs, or you can say that American middle class wages are low (relative to the wealth of the society), because their upper middle class wages are high.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#203

Post by littlexsparkee »

udave wrote: post #57

its a good idea in theory. But capitalists will make sure this does not happen because greed is never ending. today its AI, 10 years down the line it something else. Hence i think the right to be lazy is for a lucky few.

well not only that but the space to think about systems of power and possible realities (like the COVID lull) is antithetical to capitalist aims. leisure is doled out just enough to prop up consumer spending. if you restrain your desires you can buy back your time (FIRE) but that affordance is reliant on the status quo (others consuming so that your investments do well).

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#204

Post by psd1 »

artirdx wrote: post #136
lmf4lol wrote: post #35

I really do like the idea and the thinking behind it. I wpuld even argue that modern Europeans are already embracing and practicing much if it. Nearly no one I know in NL and DE works more than 36hrs per week. And we all have a sh”tload of holidays and irregular days off additionally. Need to get kids from school earlier? no prob… Need to spontanously (!) to go the dentist? no prob. (Honest disclaimer: I am talking h…

Europe is not behind because Europeans are working less and taking more vacations. This message that is being loudly broadcasted hides the real problem. Europe is behind because we do not have good leadership. The decisions taken by leadership, no matter what level you look at - local, company, national, supranational - are rarely in the best interest of Europeans. Our markets - housing, rental, labor, capital, pensi…

> The decisions taken by leadership ... are rarely in the best interest of Europeans

...and you offer America as a counterpoint? A nation predicated on fucking its people over? A hellscape of vulture capitalists, wreckers with MBAs, capricious firings, regulatory capture, poisoned water, political graft, televangelists with rolexes, police killing citizens for sport, judges getting kickbacks from prisons? And, right at the top, Mr Zero Sum himself, a man who destroyed as many public institutions as quickly as he could but somehow increased the national debt by 25% in two years.

That America? Makes decisions for the benefit of Americans, you think?

You have a point about government roadblocks - I could tell you stories about petty officialdom in rural Spain. But, unlike you, I've been to the American deep south. No, you do not have prospects there. Fucking Latvia is more advanced than most American states. Go to Lubbock and tell me europe is "behind". You've fallen for the American myth.

America has many merits, and would have become a regional power even without the fall of European empires, but please be informed: America's place in the world today comes from being the last one standing after two wars.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#205

Post by psd1 »

mountainb wrote: post #144
artirdx wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is not behind because Europeans are working less and taking more vacations. This message that is being loudly broadcasted hides the real problem. Europe is behind because we do not have good leadership. The decisions taken by leadership, no matter what level you look at - local, company, national, supranational - are rarely in the best interest of Europeans. Our markets - housing, rental, labor, capital, pensi…

The best way to understand European policy is that at a high level they want to establish a quota system both within Europe and globally. The problem with creating a quota system is that you have to be able to punish countries who cheat on the quota. Europe doesn't have the capacity to do this except internally. The regulatory superpower idea only really makes sense with the physical power to compel obedience and ext…

AI was already better than this in 2020 when your account was created. You must be human, you've failed a turing test.

G7 nations aspiring to be Puerto Rico - lol.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#207

Post by PinkSheep »

perhonen wrote: post #195
PinkSheep wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Macron tried to do pension reform > they're your countries, but i do not think it's your leaders letting you down. What fanfic am I reading here? The protests had no impact on the course of the pension reform.

they did not manage to stop the law. what i am saying is that the leaders were trying to pass a necessary law and the population was against it, so you can't pass off blame for the dysfunction on them

I see. Agreed.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#208

Post by justonceokay »

tikhonj wrote: post #148
justonceokay wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re picking apart sentences looking for signs of AI then you’re already rotted. Address how it makes you feel and the argument being made. Determining if something’s AI generated just gives us another reason not to engage. Like solving a puzzle on the kids menu instead of eating the food on the plate

We can't read everything, so we need markers of taste to figure out what is and isn't worth engaging with. AI tells are markers of drastically bad taste.

Well quibbling about em dashes is definitely in poor taste

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#209

Post by gzread »

bombcar wrote: post #127
gzread wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually a problem? We all know the average white collar worker doesn't actually work for 40 hours despite being at the office. The average - everywhere - is more like the equivalent of 20 hours of solid focused work per week day. Does more white collar work beyond a threshold produce more value, anyway? Sometimes yes but often no.

20 “usable” hours a week may be realistic, but 20 hours of work per weekday is startup class heh.

I meant per week, of course.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#210

Post by gzread »

joe_mamba wrote: post #105
gzread wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's how it works in America and China as well. And in Russia. And basically everywhere. Since it's the same in all of these places, it fails to explain the differences.

In China, Russia and America the government doesn't pay you generously in welfare to not contribute to society.

Yeah, they send you to die in dumb wars instead and if you survive then you get your welfare (a military paycheck). So you think dumb wars keep countries great?
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