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Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

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Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#201

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

zigman1 wrote: post #131
Tepix wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What‘s the source for the 20 years? Seems unlikely to me. b) You can also buy used EVs. I bought one last year, 2 years old, for 56% of the original price.

How is the battery?

I roll my eyes at this question because it's often framed as good faith curiosity, but it's often asked in bad faith by people that think it's a "gotcha" question, because they have this incorrect notion that EV batteries need to be replaced frequently. They see the warranty is 100K miles/8 years or whatever and think that means they have to replace the battery after 100K miles/8 years, yet fail to recognize that they don't apply that same logic to combustion engines with 30K mile/3 year warranties.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#202

Post by victorbjorklund »

rafterydj wrote: post #189
victorbjorklund wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can turn it around. If stopping using coal is a good idea then all that should be needed it present the facts and all the people will cheer and support stop using coal - if not it means stopping using coal is a bad idea?

No, turning it around doesn't work because it's cause and effect. "Present the facts and all the people will cheer and support stop using coal" -> correct "If not it means stopping using coal is a bad idea?" -> incorrect, because people are against switching to renewables because of lies, not because of facts

> incorrect, because people are against switching to renewables because of lies, not because of facts

Do you really think that if you presented the truth to a MAGA follower that believes climate change is a communist scam that they will just see reason and support your position just because you presented them with the facts?

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#203

Post by Schiendelman »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #196
klooney wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you need to get serviced every year? Do the tires wear out that fast?

They need the oil and coolant changed apparently, or they won't warranty the battery. Mine needs a set of tyres every few years, a set of brakes every few years, and an oil change or two a year. None of this is especially expensive.

Oil and coolant? No, someone has lied to you. EVs do not need either changed.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#204

Post by Schiendelman »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #197
Schiendelman wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a charge the dealer has made up to try to get you to spend money, not an actual need.

Why? Don't you think they need serviced or something?

From your other comment I do think you misunderstand their needs, yes.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#205

Post by gzread »

mememememememo wrote: post #37
asdff wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bother with all that though? Just ask them to do their job for the party. If they don't, or you suspect they don't align with the party, you just execute them. Don't need tech for this. The tech is just for some people to get rich, not to really enable any new evil that can't already be achieved today with pen and paper and bullet (as modeled extensively in the last century). Put it this way, if Hitler had grok,…

Because you can't do the Nazi Germany thing these days. I mean... disgust aside, it kinda failed. But you can spy on people under "national security" while keeping them feeling happy enough. And that arrangement can last 1000 years.

Germany, the USA and Israel are doing the Nazi Germany thing these days, with strong public support.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#206

Post by gzread »

bluGill wrote: post #68
mememememememo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't do the Nazi Germany thing these days. I mean... disgust aside, it kinda failed. But you can spy on people under "national security" while keeping them feeling happy enough. And that arrangement can last 1000 years.

Most of Nazi Germany is after the fact revision. They were popular around the world in the 1930s - for their plan to deal with the Jews. It is only after they went to war that we decided they were bad for that plan as well. (some people were opposed to the plan all along, but there were plenty who were in favor of it)

Even the Allies hated the Jews. They just had a different plan to get rid of them. Instead of gassing them, the Allies expelled them to Palestine, so they'd be someone else's problem

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#207

Post by zdc1 »

chermi wrote: post #157
zdc1 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who sell lottery tickets, on average, do better than those who buy them. The same applies to stock options. Which is why "bonus" options are fine, but "buying" them by taking ESOP over potential salary, can be a bad choice.

What behavioral incentive do lotto tickets give the buyer? Options/stock work for both parties because of alignment.

I'm kind of getting at the fact that people tend to optimistically overestimate the likelihood of positive outcomes. This is true for lottery tickets, and stock options (every startup is definitely going to the moon).

From the company's perspective, options/equity are great for creating alignment. From an employee perspective, employees need to understand that they are making a bet and have limited control over the outcome of said bet.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#208

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Schiendelman wrote: post #203
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need the oil and coolant changed apparently, or they won't warranty the battery. Mine needs a set of tyres every few years, a set of brakes every few years, and an oil change or two a year. None of this is especially expensive.

Oil and coolant? No, someone has lied to you. EVs do not need either changed.

They need coolant for the battery and motor which degrades, and they need oil for the gearbox.

I guess you're in the US, where "lifetime oil" is a thing. Expect the gearbox to be scrap once it's a little outside the warranty period.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#209

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Schiendelman wrote: post #191
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, for even a very basic EV I'd be paying £400 per month. This is more than the £200-300 or so it costs to run my existing car. Straight off, it's costing me more just to even own one - that's before it turns a wheel. Tax on an EV is free just now, and about £300ish a year for the vehicle I have now, so that's got the difference down a little. Insurance on even a fairly basic EV would be a couple of hundred quid a…

Thank you, this makes sense out of the gate, and I appreciate you sharing! I'm not seeing you calculate any repair costs for your vehicle. Or depreciation overall, especially not replacement. What year do you expect to replace your vehicle? What would you replace it with? How much would you get for trading in your vehicle if you buy a new car now? I think you're missing pretty large parts of the math - what happens i…

Repair costs are pretty minimal. I just spent £120 on some bearings that I intend to replace while I'm off for the Easter holidays which isn't bad.

I don't much care about the depreciation on a 30-year-old vehicle that I bought outright for considerably less than the price of a single car payment for something new.

I doubt I'd get anything for trading it in, and I'd probably get about £100-£150 if I scrapped it, or several thousand quid if I parted it out (you're looking at about £500 for the engine and about £300 for the gearbox alone).

If I was going to replace it, I'd probably replace it with another one the same, although admittedly I don't have to tow 3500kg trailers off road nearly as often as I did a couple of years ago. The choice would be driven by the fact that I have a complete service and workshop manual for it and suitable diagnostics.

I don't want to drive something that has an always-on internet connection or any sort of screen. That's also a pretty big factor.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#210

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #200
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Don't you think they need serviced or something?

I've owned my Tesla for 6 years and 50,000 miles. The only service it's needed beyond tires, wiper blades, and wiper fluid is a replacement of the low-voltage battery last year, which was under $200. If you're paying $300/year to service your EV, either you drive a LOT or you're getting ripped off. There's nothing in an EV that requires $300/year in service. There's no oil changes, no transmission fluid. Brake pads w…

> no oil changes, no transmission fluid

There is. You think those gears run completely dry?

> Brake pads will last forever since regen should be doing at least 90% of your braking.

Turns out they don't. Maybe if you are driving slowly in a completely flat part of the world they will. In an ICE-powered car, engine braking does most of the work anyway.

Incidentally, a set of brake pads lasts me two or three years, even allowing for pulling heavy trailers quite frequently. They're about £80 for a full set. Brake discs are more expensive but they last a very long time if you don't let the pads wear to the metal.

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