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Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

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201–210 of 247 posts

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#201
post #14

>The verdict has forced those inside the companies to grapple with the fact that many outsiders do not view them as favourably as they have come to view themselves. I'm not sure this rings true to me. Meta has to know that millenials and younger are giving up on their platforms, they have endless internal data showing it, right? If anything they are just afraid of endless litigation while they are struggling to gain…

> Meta has to know that millenials and younger are giving up on their platforms, they have endless internal data showing it, right? Do you have a source for that? I don't think it's true when looking at global Meta numbers across _all_ Meta social platforms (FB+Instagram+Threads) combined.

Also WhatsApp which leans towards social features ("Updates"), in some countries.

> Threads

I had forgotten this one existed, so much so that I got surprised by my own forgetfulness. What's up with it, is it popular among certain demographics?

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#202
Does anyone have a breakdown from the case itself about what particular features of these social media apps makes them threshold into the "addictive" classification?

- Infinite Scrolling?

- Play Next Video Automatically?

- Shorts?

- Matching to your peer group?

- Variable Reward?

- Social Reciprocity?

- Notifications?

- Gamification (Streaks)?

Was the case won on the argument that it is the aggregate of these things (and many more I am sure)? The power imbalance between the user and the company? Was it some particular subset of them that they rest their argument on? I'm just genuinely curious how you can win a very challenging case like this without inadvertently lassoing so many other industries that your arguments seem ludicrous?

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#203
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The personalization component takes this a step above. Making something very broadly appealing is one thing. Targeting what will keep you specifically from turning it off is a whole new level.

So if social media removed personalization from their algorithms and only applied them broadly across large demographic groups you'd be fine with them? (Genuine question I'm curious)

Maybe. It's hard to know what kind of world that would result in.

I could well see it being so much less effective as to not be a problem. Or maybe they'd be even more effective, and if we caught them explicitly knowing that they were harming children, it would still potentially be tortious.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#204
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> How many people who played DND or video games or music or any of the other things you listed regretted it afterwards? How many people playing DND would say “I wish I was out with my friends because this game is too addictive”. None, because they were with their friends!! Lol. Tell me you weren't around for the D&D panic without saying you weren't around for the D&D panic. This was precisely the argument used. "The…

In not sure who you’re arguing against, but you’re arguing against the opposite point I made, the satanic panic of the eighties is like a special interest of mine. Also lol @directionallly correct. And I’m not asking anyone to ban social media, maybe just regulate some of the behaviors by companies who are creating products 60% of users say that wish were less addictive. The key distinction is insiders. If people pla…

Another argument, just because I’m having fun — ask all dnd players what policies or laws the government should put in place to prevent the harm caused by dND and I think consrervstively 99% of them say “what the fuck are you on about.

Ask a similar question to just the folks who say that social media is a net benefit to their lives, and I think you get a litany of responses.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30 years ago they'd all have been staring at TVs in their respective rooms. 50 years ago they'd be reading their own newspapers and magazines. The name changes but the song remains the same; people have their own interests, even within a family, that aren't shared with others. I wouldn't bore my partner by monologuing about my hobbies, and she likewise. At least we're in the same room together.

Reading was a hobby most people chose not to engage in that much. If you read books/novels etc for 6 hours per day, people would remark on that like "he reads a lot", often asking you to put down your books to join them in whatever activity. Few people would have had their own TVs in their room 30 years ago. That wasn't common. They were huge, expensive, and not remotely interesting enough to capture the attention of…

Reading used to be super common, including among working class. They used to read what was called "junk literature", basically written equivalents of fun tv.

That changed into watching youtube now.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#206
post #5

We all know they're addictive, they're designed to be addictive, and they're very, very harmful, to both adults and children. The individuals who are profiting from the harm are clearly identifiable. And that harm directly targets children. That this is allowed to continue is a symptom of a sick society.

Early FB was bad enough when it was your actual friends posting the best (or made up) bits of their lives - and you were only scrolling when you had nothing better to do. Did you know kids, there was a time when the feed was ordered by time and you knew the people who posted stuff? It's a shame we can't have nice things. An actual non-abusive social medium for people to share things like this - I'd use it. But I see…

fediverse?

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. “Can produce addiction-like behaviors”! Like, I dunno, really getting into running or yoga or fantasy football? Where is the line, according to experts in addiction-like behavior?

Believe it or not, you might find the answer to that question inside the paper I shared with you called "Toward the classification of social media use disorder: Clinical characterization and proposed diagnostic criteria". https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235285322...

I’m not asking about the criteria for establishing new disorders. I’m sure there are many.

I’m asking why all this fuss about the social media companies and not the video or causal game companies?

Nobody’s ever written a paper about Candy Crush addiction?

Everyone seems very excited to throw Meta and others in the bucket with Big Tobacco, and I don’t see how in the world that makes sense without much stronger clinical evidence on the harms of social media to non-mentally ill people.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#208

I have no love for social media, but I also really don't like the idea of the government regulating how apps are designed, or trying to circumnavigate online privacy to "protect children" which where I see this whole thing going. On another note, personally I'm not sure I buy the "addictive" argument with social media, maybe its just me but I find social media pretty boring, but I think for a lot of younger people it…

Do you never wonder if we’ve gone too far though, out of fear of relatively accountable governments manipulating the flow of information, we’ve put like five capitalists in charge of the flow of all information. Sure, there is a danger in giving the government more power, and that danger is not theoretical. But we’re in a dangerous situation right now!

It feels like we’re free soeeching ourselves into the most constrained and controlled free speech environment in history.

If freedom of speech is supposed to do something like create an environment where people can present alternate ideas and speak out against the government, social media is raising the noise floor so much that’s basically impossible.

Aside from that that know one seems concerned that Zuckerberg is on like an advisory panel on AI reporting directly to Trump? The fox is in the hen house.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#209
post #115

I think the issue people are not acknowledging is that social media and apps and phones are addictive because they are fun . People are addicted to having fun, and to outlaw the addiction is to literally make fun illegal. Let me take half a step backward from that provocative stance. Of course we don't need to outlaw all fun, but we perhaps we really do need to outlaw some fun, to prevent people from overindulgence.…

or hear me out, we could just let people have the freedom to make their own choices and take self-responsibility for their choices in life.

Why tho, are you really just a nihilist?

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#210
post #75

I have no love for social media, but I also really don't like the idea of the government regulating how apps are designed, or trying to circumnavigate online privacy to "protect children" which where I see this whole thing going. On another note, personally I'm not sure I buy the "addictive" argument with social media, maybe its just me but I find social media pretty boring, but I think for a lot of younger people it…

It's wild to me how many people are willing to throw basic civil liberties overboard because they don't like the other guys. Today's media circus is about addictive social media. Before that it was video games and rock music and D&D clubs. Before that it the Satanic panic of the 80s, gay 'recruitment', Soviet spies. Much before that it was witches and heretics. And so on and so on, forever. If you have a choice, mayb…

Weve stopped worried what unaccountable social media ceos might be doing to manipulate the media environment with mark Z as an advisor to Trump? How is legacy media oppressive but social media algorithms freedom?

Social media is a regulated space, it’s not a free market of ideas, it’s a particular viewpoint shaped by like 5 people. How can you be so skeptical of everything else but be like “stop it guys, Zuck’s got our best interests at heart”

How would like regulating more transparency in social media algorithms violate your right to free speech?

What if we just made it so social media companies had to give you more control of the algorithm?

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