You are not your job • Hacker News Board

Re: You are not your job

#201

Post by wolvesechoes » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:25 AM UTC

BobbyJo wrote: post #135

throwaway-11-1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t valuable to markets, but like I have neighbors who are treasured by the community and genuinely bring joy to everyone. But no, I guess they aren’t economically important. I actually don’t like how every soul has been reduced to an efficiency metric, surprised how much I find forums like this accept that framing.

> But no, I guess they aren’t economically important. I actually don’t like how every soul has been reduced to an efficiency metric, surprised how much I find forums like this accept that framing. Efficiency is the metric of nature. Thinking about human life in any other terms than input and output is objectively a luxury, afforded only to societies with surplus resources. Calling it "framing" feels a little disingen…

> Thinking about human life in any other terms than input and output is objectively a luxury, afforded only to societies with surplus resources

Even a little bit of anthropological study shows this is false.

Re: You are not your job

#202

Post by WesolyKubeczek » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:26 AM UTC

slopinthebag wrote: post #156

block_dagger wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within a few years I think UBI or UBS will be required for people to continue living, in which case basic needs (bills) won't be a concern. There's just no way for us to transition fast enough to avoid high unemployment as AI replaces large swaths of jobs. I do worry about the ~10 year transition it will take for societal governments to react.

UBI just inflates the currency. What will hopefully end up happening is that displaced workers can do jobs which aren't economically viable atm, but are still socially viable: Imagine an army of workers cleaning up the streets (literally) and transforming your town into a clean, well maintained cityscape. Etc etc.

IMO this cannot work unless there is enforcement to do such work. Most people would prefer to take their money and do fuck all in return.

If I was a dictator that wanted to institute UBI, I would do it in exchange for every beneficient getting literally conscripted once in a while to do those shit jobs.

Re: You are not your job

#203

Post by taffronaut » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:27 AM UTC

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

I'd respectfully challenge that your opinion reflects reality. Nihilism [1] is just one philosophy amongst many. It's no more 'the one truth' than any of the others. Many of the other philosophies have evolved in the light of folks living for centuries through harsher reality than most of us are experiencing today. You might consider other philosophies to be delusional (as others consider nihilism to be delusional), but even in that different delusion they provide a framework to relate your love of your own personality and humanity with the same feelings that a lot of other people also feel about themselves and also each other.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Re: You are not your job

#204

Post by titanomachy » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:27 AM UTC

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

Our society used to have religious beliefs that put special value on human lives / souls / whatever. Now for many people, capitalism and materialism is the only religion, and in this religion humans are reduced to their dollar value. But you should recognize that this is not a neutral choice: you have in fact chosen one of many possible value systems, and others may choose differently.

Much of human behavior is not explained by economic incentives: for example, many elderly people are cared for by their children out of a love or a sense of familial duty.

Re: You are not your job

#205

Post by WesolyKubeczek » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:29 AM UTC

senordevnyc wrote: post #90

block_dagger wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within a few years I think UBI or UBS will be required for people to continue living, in which case basic needs (bills) won't be a concern. There's just no way for us to transition fast enough to avoid high unemployment as AI replaces large swaths of jobs. I do worry about the ~10 year transition it will take for societal governments to react.

Within a few years I think UBI or UBS will be required for people to continue living, in which case basic needs (bills) won't be a concern. There's just no way for us to transition fast enough to avoid high unemployment as AI replaces large swaths of jobs. I do worry about the ~10 year transition it will take for societal governments to react. This strikes me as wildly optimistic. People aren't going to be able to li…

$2k of unconditional income means that the most basic bread at your store will cost $150 a loaf, and a bar of butter $180, $200 if unsalted.

Re: You are not your job

#206

Post by serial_dev » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:33 AM UTC

helloplanets wrote: post #153

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

> We are in fact very disposable and replaceable. To your friends and family as well? Or just your employer? You're describing things that may well be true for a lot of employers, but fall apart outside of that context.

For some rare once-in-a-lifetime friendships, you are not disposable, and if anything were to happen to you, you would be missed. I can count those on one hand.

For most casual acquaintances (that some people incorrectly label as friends), it's certainly true.

On the family's side: only parents, siblings, children, maybe some aunt or grandparent. Second distant cousin you saw 3 times in life?

Re: You are not your job

#207

Post by titanomachy » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:36 AM UTC

Tor3 wrote: post #176

The focus on "what you do" is very US-centric (or possibly North American). When you meet someone then one of the very first things asked is "what do you do" or something to that extent. What your job is. But it's not like that at all elsewhere in the world. It varies a lot. I myself never ask that question, unless it's for a very specific reason. And _never_ as part of an introduction. I've known people for decades…

I have noticed the same thing, but I still think it's an interesting question. It would be strange for me to have a close friend and never have any kind of curiosity about how they spend nearly half of their waking hours. We don't live in severance-world: understanding someone's vocation feels like part of understanding them as a person.

I guess if you live in a community where most people do sort of menial interchangeable jobs then it's probably different, maybe everyone has a job as an unfortunate necessity but would rather think and talk about it as little as possible.

Re: You are not your job

#208

Post by pyrale » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:41 AM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #38

Agreed with the title and some of the broad sentiment, but two things stood out. > I can't delegate my capacity to sit with someone when they're confused or scared or just need to feel known Plenty of people rely on therapists and/or chat bots to listen to them. Not everybody feels comfortable burdening their friends and family with their problems. > We possess the means to care for everyone -- yet choose not to Ther…

> Thus, yes, in rich countries we have collectively decided that "caring for everyone" is not the best way forward, because we see that it becomes unsustainable when you go too far.

What rich country are you talking about? Most developed countries have elected to have social safety nets, and that includes the US to some extent. "Caring for everyone" in your message looks like some form of utopia where no one would have to work, but that has never been advocated anywhere.

Also what does "we" mean in that context? To me, it looks like you’re passing your opinion as a well-accepted fact.

Re: You are not your job

#209

Post by tock » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:44 AM UTC

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

Huh? I value myself and my family at infinity. Meaning no-one else or no amount of money can replace them. So no we are in fact extremely non disposable and non replaceable to the people we love.

Re: You are not your job

#210

Post by david-gpu » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 9:47 AM UTC

pyrale wrote: post #208

david-gpu wrote: post #38

Agreed with the title and some of the broad sentiment, but two things stood out. > I can't delegate my capacity to sit with someone when they're confused or scared or just need to feel known Plenty of people rely on therapists and/or chat bots to listen to them. Not everybody feels comfortable burdening their friends and family with their problems. > We possess the means to care for everyone -- yet choose not to Ther…

> Thus, yes, in rich countries we have collectively decided that "caring for everyone" is not the best way forward, because we see that it becomes unsustainable when you go too far. What rich country are you talking about? Most developed countries have elected to have social safety nets, and that includes the US to some extent. "Caring for everyone" in your message looks like some form of utopia where no one would ha…

> "Caring for everyone" in your message looks like some form of utopia where no one would have to work, but that has never been advocated anywhere.

Have you never met an advocate for UBI? How do you interpret OP's "We possess the means to care for everyone -- yet choose not to" in its context?

> Also what does "we" mean in that context

Voters. Voters have collectively decided, in all developed countries, to strike a balance between having a social net that gives people some minimum assurances while maintaining strong incentives to work. This is in opposition to OP's "We possess the means to care for everyone -- yet choose not to". I am trying to explain that there are good reasons why we do that; it is not a moral failure.