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How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

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201–210 of 286 posts

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#201
post #96

I wonder if Gil Tal has ever used an EV as their daily vehicle. I have had two EVs in the last three years - a Kona and an IONIQ 5. I have greatly enjoyed them both. But one thing was a downside that I just had to accept: poor charging. Granted, I live in the Canadian Prairies full of small towns a fair distance apart. And it's not exactly progressive - I'm actually being taxed for owning an EV. The charging infrastr…

In remote areas, sudden load from fast chargers can cause a bit of trouble with the rest of the local grid. It may be that those rest stops can't yet support a fast charger without upgrading their transformers.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're new they could just be built to pass US safety standards, BYD vehicles perform well on safety ratings and I imagine that's what their strategy has been. Sure still have to go through the procedures but the hard part is done once the regulatory blocks are removed.

I don’t mean to pick on this particular comment, but broadly the EV enthusiast community is severely underestimating what would happen to the sticker price of a BYD that could actually be sold in the United States in alignment with a real market strategy, even if the company only faced German-level tariffs. BYD currently has no dealer network in the US. $0 marketing spend. $0 on regulatory compliance. These things ar…

This only matters if you were to assume they are undercapitalized to execute this strategy, I would assume the opposite in this thought exercise. EV enthusiasts are going to be the first adopters at any price, BYD has a lot of hype.

Dealer network is pretty easy these days, DTC. Service, probably just create a network like Slate. Regulatory, yep cost of business but again should be able to do it without changing the vehicle much if they've already been focusing on our standards (IDK if that's true exactly, but it could be). Marketing, choose your adventure, there's tons of ways to go cheap (of course it's all relative and still a lot compared to how you'd open a taco stand) if they wanted to go grassroots, influencer first, etc to get it out there. If the product is good, people will talk and it will grow. In this industry, I don't think anyone expects a new car brand to come close to dominating the market within the first decade or even two but they could become fixtures on the fastest growing list. If not them, who?

I'm not sure how all the economics would flush out, but I do know US vehicles are getting super expensive and if they could just pack in more luxury per dollar, people would take a chance on it.

https://www.slate.auto/en/certified

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An EV is in digital communication with the charging station. Why would you “go pay”? You don’t “go pay” at a Tesla Supercharger.

Not everyone wants to link their bank account to shady automotive companies or be paying automotive company charging price markup.

[dead]

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#204
post #162
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have to keep their head down for fear it will get cut off (figuratively speaking, mostly). I doubt the majority of Chinese civilians are happy to be in a repressed state such as the one they're in. Around 100 million Chinese people travel abroad every year, and they all return to their country of their own free will. Go to China and see it for yourself. Talk with people, you would be surprised. Go to Shanghai…

I can't say I'm as knowledgeable of Chinese history as you seem to be, so I appreciate the information. And I may have used less than accurate phrasing when I said that I thought Chinese people are likely unhappy to be in a repressed state. Perhaps my comment should have been more specific about the fact I was referring to not having any freedom of speech when it comes to criticizing the government. But as a thought…

You've shifted the argument. "China restricts freedom of speech, especially criticism of the government" is true. But that is not the same claim as "most Chinese people are unhappy, living with their heads down in fear of being disappeared". China is authoritarian and heavily censors speech but broad support for the system can still exist in an illiberal state, especially when people feel their lives have improved materially. China lifted nearly 800 million people out of extreme poverty over the past 40 years. Independent long run survey work from (if I remember correctly it was Harvard's) found extremely high satisfaction with China's central government, including 95.5% in around 2016.

The real question is whether your picture of ordinary Chinese life is accurate. And IMO it mostly isn't. This is not North Korea. Mainland residents made 291 million exit/entry trips in 2024 alone. There was a survey that found many respondents were willing to complain to the government or even protest over concrete issues like pollution, which is not how people behave if society is defined mainly by universal terror. So the better description is that China has hard political red lines, but normal daily life for most people is not "stay silent or vanish".

> They've disappeared countless heads of companies or organizations and prominent individuals as well (#WhereIsPengShuai).

The Peng Shuai case became a major Western media story, yet the controversy lasted only a few weeks before the international attention faded. Meanwhile, the WTA eventually backed down from its boycott threats. This illustrates how these incidents are often weaponized for geopolitical narratives rather than representing systematic policy.

More broadly, every country has mechanisms to deal with corruption, fraud, and abuse. China's anti corruption campaign has prosecuted hundreds of thousands of officials. The difference is that in China, accountability flows through Party mechanisms rather than Western style independent judiciaries.

> It was not that long ago that hundreds or even thousands of innocent civilians were murdered in Tianenmen Square (which is wiped from the record in China of course).

That was over 35 years ago in 1989, so longer than the time between Pearl Harbor and the fall of the Berlin Wall. You're basicallt judging present day Germany by conditions in 1945. China's government, economy, and society have transformed fundamentally since then.

> I don't think that really negates my point about Chinese citizens needing to stay in line for fear they will also be disappeared or worse.

The assumption that 1.4 billion people live in constant terror is simply not consistent with what we observe. If the level of fear you describe were accurate, would we not expect to see mass emigration rather than the world's largest annual outbound tourism? Would we not see economic collapse? The voluntary return of over 100 million Chinese travelers annually many of whom have the means to stay abroad tells you something significant about where people actually want to live.

Predictions that Chinese society is one downturn away from revolt have been made for decades, and they have repeatedly been wrong.

An authoritarian system can be repressive and still enjoy genuine mass support. In China's case, the evidence strongly suggests that both things are true at once.

The CCP's legitimacy rests not merely on performance but on a coherent worldview that China's developmental challenges require a unified national direction rather than gridlocked partisan competition. For a country that experienced a century of humiliation, civil war, and famine, stability is existential.

You wrote that quality of life improvements "don't really negate" your fear based argument. But I'd ask: at what point does aggregate human welfare matter more than ideological purity? If a governance system has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty while maintaining social order and national dignity, on what grounds do outsiders declare it illegitimate?

The Chinese people are not waiting for Western validation. They're building a civilization according to their own traditions and values.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#205
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying the fair share for road maintenance isn't a human rights issue.

The issue is not paying our fair share, the issue is paying more than we would if we drove gas vehicles. They assume we drove X miles (I’m in Washington state) and that is not even close to what I actually drive (it’s much less, I could game it if I drove more than the C miles they compute the fee on, but I don’t need to drive that much).

The issue is not paying our fair share, the issue is paying more than we would if we drove gas vehicles.

Perhaps in Washington State that is your issue, but that is not what we are discussing here.

The poster I was replying to lives in Alberta, and your experience in an entirely different country, in that state, has nothing to do with what they pay. Or whether what they pay is fair. And this point was not raised as a concern by the original poster.

Their only concern was paying any tax at all. Their concern was paying for road maintenance costs, period.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#206
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not paying our fair share, the issue is paying more than we would if we drove gas vehicles. They assume we drove X miles (I’m in Washington state) and that is not even close to what I actually drive (it’s much less, I could game it if I drove more than the C miles they compute the fee on, but I don’t need to drive that much).

The issue is not paying our fair share, the issue is paying more than we would if we drove gas vehicles. Perhaps in Washington State that is your issue, but that is not what we are discussing here. The poster I was replying to lives in Alberta, and your experience in an entirely different country, in that state, has nothing to do with what they pay. Or whether what they pay is fair. And this point was not raised as a…

Most states and provinces I think have already applied a flat yearly registration fee surcharge to make up for lost gas tax revenue.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#207

Gas pumps in the US are artificially capped at 10 gallons per minute, and a gallon of gasoline is about 33kWh, so petrol cars in the US “charge” at 330kWh/min ~= 20MW. But most cars only turn about a third of that into motion, so let’s say 7MW equivalent? While BYD’s 1.5MW is amazing, it seems a stretch to call it “almost as fast as gas pumps.” Diesel pumps for trucks typically pump much faster too. And diesel is nea…

Fair but any EV owner knows after a bathroom break, quick stretch and maybe a bite to eat every 1-2hr while charging and you never even notice the stopping to charge time.

I am not EV owner but that’s not how like my car trips. I can drive 4 hrs nonstop and then expect to “charge” my car in 5 minutes at the pump with a bathroom break, and be on the road.

Sometimes we like a more leisurely drive, but it should be up me to decide when that happens not the car.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with liking how EV behave, it’s just it’s not for everyone. And I think a lot of recent pullback from EVs (Ford, Honda) kinda points that way. With as fast a charger as a gas pump situation may change though, so let’s what happens!

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#208

Gas pumps in the US are artificially capped at 10 gallons per minute, and a gallon of gasoline is about 33kWh, so petrol cars in the US “charge” at 330kWh/min ~= 20MW. But most cars only turn about a third of that into motion, so let’s say 7MW equivalent? While BYD’s 1.5MW is amazing, it seems a stretch to call it “almost as fast as gas pumps.” Diesel pumps for trucks typically pump much faster too. And diesel is nea…

It’s the same order of magnitude, allowing people to mentally budget zero time for a charge.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#209
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair but any EV owner knows after a bathroom break, quick stretch and maybe a bite to eat every 1-2hr while charging and you never even notice the stopping to charge time.

I am not EV owner but that’s not how like my car trips. I can drive 4 hrs nonstop and then expect to “charge” my car in 5 minutes at the pump with a bathroom break, and be on the road. Sometimes we like a more leisurely drive, but it should be up me to decide when that happens not the car. I am not saying there is anything wrong with liking how EV behave, it’s just it’s not for everyone. And I think a lot of recent p…

I felt the same way as you until I took a few road trips in sn EV.

I drove about 20 hours in two days. The thing that struck me is how refreshed I felt when I arrived. Normally I'd be dead on my feet and the travel day would be lost completely but I was ready for activity on arrival. I was very surprised.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#210
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also $50k for a car that only got 120-150mi of range. It was a joke car. The reason it didn’t sell well is because it was a compliance car, not because it didn’t innovative. If it had a reasonable range (say, Chevy Bolt 200-250ish) in all electric for the same price, I bet it would have sold much much better.

On the up side i3 are great second hand bargain at current ~$5K price point.

$20k at least here in South Africa. $5k sounds like insane value.
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