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US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

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Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banks are lending to private equity firms to fund purchases of businesses Not quite. Private credit is to debt what private equity is to equity. (Technically, any non-bank originated debt that isn't publicly traded is private credit. Conventionally, it's restricted to corporate borrowers.) So bank exposure to private credit generally means banks lending to non-banks who then lend to corporate borrowers.

What does this typically look like? Who is the intermediary here between the bank and corporate borrowers - are these buy side created SPVs?

> Who is the intermediary

Business development companies [0]. Blue Owl. BlackRock [1].

> are these buy side created SPVs?

Great question! Not always [2].

[0] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/private-credit-fund...

[1] https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/newsroom/press-releases/...

[2] https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/meta-secures-30bn...

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#202

There is so much misinformed fear-mongering about private credit right now. Important Facts: 1) The majority of private credit funds are classed as "permanent capital". When you put money into these vehicles, you give the Asset Manager discretion over when to give the money back. Redemptions are often gated at ~5% per quarter. (So there cannot, by definition, be a run on the bank) 2) Credit is senior to equity, so if…

> Private equity has to be effectively a 0 before private credit takes any losses

Technically yes. But the overlap between private equity as it's commonly described and private credit is slim.

> average "recovery rate" for senior secured loans is 80%

Oooh, source? (I'm curious for when this was measured.)

> A loan modified and extended with added PIK that ultimately gets repaid is not a "true" default

True. It's a red flag, nonetheless.

> Every Asset Manager today could go out tomorrow, mark NAVs down by 20% and suddenly there is no crisis

Correct. The question is if 20% is enough, and if a 20% markdown creates a vicious cycle as funding for e.g. re- or follow-on financing dries up.

You seem knowledgable about this. I'm coming in as an equities man. Would you have some good sources you'd recommend that make the dovish cash for private credit today?

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#203
The concern here seems to be that the credit risk on the underlying borrowers is being transferred to banks through the loans made by the banks to the private credit firms. But the banks' lending to the private credit firms is subject to the same regulations and constraints as their lending to other borrowers (the same regulations and constraints that led them not to lend to the underlying borrowers in the first place). When banks lend to private credit funds/firms, it tends to be through senior, secured loans which will be less risky than the underlying loans.

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#204

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this isn't that big of a number in the larger scale of US banking; According to the numbers in the article that's only about 2.5% of all bank lending (300B/1.2T, with the 1.2T being ~10%)

Someone else owns all the other credit. This is the 1st domino.

The liquidity challenges of a $1.2T shock to the economy is meaningful, because it has knock on effects on equity as well.

When private credit (which is propping up private valuation) falls, private equity also falls and then everyone realizes that everyone else has been swimming naked.

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what will break the clock ?

> what will break the clock ? So unlike money-market funds, these private-credit funds can gate withdrawals and extend and pretend by turning cash coupons into PIKs. So I don't actually see credit concerns directly driving liquidity issues for the banks that didn't hold the risk on their balance sheet glares Germanically . Instead, I think the contagion risk is psychological. Which is an unsatisfying answer. But if t…

You can't gate redemptions forever amigo.

People eventually want to spend their money.

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#206
post #118

To private credit firms . Most of what banks do is private credit, the news is them funding private credit firms.

I don't know a lot about finance. What is the definition/significance of "firm" in this context (if that's not a complicated question)?

> What is the definition/significance of "firm"

Broadly speaking, privately-held companies are called firms. Colloquially, it tends to connote closely-held companies.

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#207
post #164
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not who you asked, but I think making the nuance between retail and corporate credit. With firms being corporate credit (i.e. we aren’t talking about individuals / retail).

No. There are kind of 3 types of loans: - bonds. Loans interned to be bought by a range if investors and traded over time. Arranged and unwritten by investment banks. - bank loans. The classic loan. The bank takes depositor money (that the depositor can take back anytime!) and loans it to someone or some company. The bank holds the loan - private credit. Like a bank loan, but they get their money from long term inves…

> The bank holds the loan

These are mostly syndicated. The traditional difference between loans and bonds was bank versus investment bank. The modern difference is in underwriting technique, degree of syndication/securitisation and loans mostly being floating and bonds mostly being fixed.

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#208
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consequences would be nice, but actually forbidding it for the future would be enough. Obama promised to do it, but didn't, and everybody kind of forgot and moved on.

> Obama promised to do it Do you know how the three branches of government work and who writes the laws? The legislative produced Frank-Dodd...which Trump and Republicans later scaled back...

Do we still have three separate branches?

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Blackpilling" is apparently an incel term for fatalism/nihilism. Sounds like they're trying to read financial news through that lens.

> "Blackpilling" is apparently an incel term for fatalism/nihilism Any idea as to the etymology? What was the black pill? Is it a Matrix reference? Meta: why are incel neologisms so catchy?

I think (but I don't move in such circles) that originally there was "redpilled" to refer to people playing "The Game" (pickup artists). Original reference is to The Matrix, of course.

Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says

#210

There is so much misinformed fear-mongering about private credit right now. Important Facts: 1) The majority of private credit funds are classed as "permanent capital". When you put money into these vehicles, you give the Asset Manager discretion over when to give the money back. Redemptions are often gated at ~5% per quarter. (So there cannot, by definition, be a run on the bank) 2) Credit is senior to equity, so if…

> Private equity has to be effectively a 0 before private credit takes any losses Technically yes. But the overlap between private equity as it's commonly described and private credit is slim. > average "recovery rate" for senior secured loans is 80% Oooh, source? (I'm curious for when this was measured.) > A loan modified and extended with added PIK that ultimately gets repaid is not a "true" default True. It's a re…

> Oooh, source? (I'm curious for when this was measured.)

It depends when you measure, but you can Google around and find figures in the 60-80% range. 80% may have been a bit on the optimistic end of the range. But it's important to note that a "default" doesn't imply a 0.

Of course this will depend on the covenants, underwriting standards, type of collateral.

I would guess software equity collateral recovery rates are lower than hard assets like a building. (Which is why I personally don't like Software loans, nothing to do with AI)

> Correct. The question is if 20% is enough, and if a 20% markdown creates a vicious cycle as funding for e.g. re- or follow-on financing dries up.

I think it's almost certain that new fundraising for private credit will be materially hindered going forward. But this just limits the growth rate of these firms, does not introduce any "collapse" risk.

They may move from net inflows to net outflows and bleed AUM over a period of some years.

If NAVs were inflated previously, they may be forced to mark down the NAV to meet redemptions rather than using inflows to payoff older investors.

In the world of credit, 20% is an enormous haircut. Again, senior secured loans fell by around 30% peak to trough in 2008.

We have the public BDC market as a comparison point where the average price/book is around 0.80x. So the public market is willing to buy credit strategies at a 20% discount to stated NAV.

The real systemic risk here, if we were to reach for one, is really that these fears become self fulfilling.

If investors pull funds out of credit strategies en-masse, there is no first order systemic issue, but it means borrowers of many outstanding loans may not be able to secure refinancing as money is drying up.

This could lead to a self-fulfilling default cycle. But this would be a fear driven default cycle, there is no fundamental issue with cash flows of borrowers or otherwise (in aggregate, currently).

Finally, in regards to the asset managers themselves, many are quite diversified.

Yes, they have private credit funds, but many have real estate funds, buyout funds etc. OWL is one of the biggest managers of data center funds, for example (which they also got hammered for on AI bubble fears)

Given how depressed pricing is in public REITs, for example, I expect a lot of asset managers to pivot towards more real asset funds.

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