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Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

theguardian.com

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Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#201

Post by Schmerika »

deeg wrote: post #148
keiferski wrote: post #27

This whole situation made me realize that the mechanism for holding presidents accountable for campaign promises really doesn’t exist. None of this is what people voted for, and is almost directly the opposite. That isn’t a new thing, of course, but this seems like a pretty huge turnaround from what the campaign was about. This seems like a fundamental problem with the system to me. If you can’t count on the candidat…

I think people did vote for this and the proof is that Republicans are still supporting trump almost unequivocally. The senate just voted to not curtail his actions in Iran and only one GOP senator opposed.

> the proof is that Republicans are still supporting trump almost unequivocally

That doesn't prove what people voted for. It proves the quality - or lack thereof - of the voting population, the political class, and the media.

Few want to hear that. Fewer still understand it.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#202

Post by JKCalhoun »

ryandrake wrote: post #169
JKCalhoun wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I tried to discount sweeping accusations made against voters, increasingly I am beginning to think that a lot of those who support this administration really want to see a "whiter" and more Christian U.S. It's getting harder for me to deny. If there are single-issue voters supporting this admin, I suspect for many that issue is not "stay out of foreign wars" but something closer to going back to some mythi…

> It's getting harder for me to deny. Congrats on letting it finally sink in, but I honestly don't understand how this fact wasn't clearly evident from even his first term. His base absolutely eats up any rhetoric around making the country 1. more white and 2. more christian. You don't even really have to be listening for subtle dogwhistles anymore. They're saying these things openly now.

I suppose there is a part of me that tries to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#203

Post by nickthegreek »

Schmerika wrote: post #201
deeg wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people did vote for this and the proof is that Republicans are still supporting trump almost unequivocally. The senate just voted to not curtail his actions in Iran and only one GOP senator opposed.

> the proof is that Republicans are still supporting trump almost unequivocally That doesn't prove what people voted for. It proves the quality - or lack thereof - of the voting population, the political class, and the media. Few want to hear that. Fewer still understand it.

Those people aren’t in the streets shouting that this isn’t what they voted for. Stands to reason that many are just fine with how everything is playing out.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#204

Post by insane_dreamer »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #195
nullocator wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it surprise you to learn I am a christian, have been my entire life? Maybe not the kind of "christian" you are/are think of though...which I guess was my point entirely. I'm more of a "respect and love thy neighbor kind of guy", than a "we should love our new christ Donald Trump, and go to war on everyone else" kind

OK. I'm not really christian (but grew up catholic) but know a lot and they are all like you. All hate Trump. All seem to hate war (but they do do fundraisers for Ukraine so I don't know if that is supporting war, it's not to me). And all work hard supporting our poor rural community. There's trump christians here too, but they don't define the religion or mean you can make blanket christian belief claims. Condemning…

"80% of evangelicals voted for President-elect Donald Trump in 2024"[0]

[0] https://americancompass.org/how-the-decline-of-evangelicalis...

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#205

Post by Sabinus »

nullocator wrote: post #178
myvoiceismypass wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the TV show Landman is to believed, its not all rosy for the oil companies when prices go over $100 because it leads to people using less gas: "Well, you want oil to live above 60 but below 90. And don’t get me wrong, we’re still printing money at 90, but gas gets up over $3.50 a gallon, it starts to pinch. It hits a hundred, every product in America has to readjust its price. $78 a barrel, that’s about perfect. Y…

That show is 100% fiction, bullshit and propaganda, nothing in it should be believed or taken at face value. The examples, stats or stories Billy-Bob tells are contrived, false or otherwise misleading. It is entertainment, a soap opera for adult men.

And the acting is extremely average.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#206

Post by tgma »

DrProtic wrote: post #193
tgma wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been numbers as high as 90k reported initially, so I wouldn't say it is "moving up" across time but across sources. There is no clear data, but at this point 30-32k appears to be the lower bound estimate over which there's a consensus. Likely to be higher.

Consensus reached by the group that attacked them. Why do we have to go through this every time US attacks someone? Every time it turns out they lied through their teeth, yet people still believe. 30K is such an incredibly high number that you really have to be gullible to trust it.

> 30K is such an incredibly high number that you really have to be gullible to trust it.

Correct; it's a very high number.

Yes, either that, or shows how ignorant you are about the extent of brutality of the regime.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#207

Post by FrancisMoodie »

mancerayder wrote: post #184
phr4ts wrote: post #70

List of terrorist groups sponsored by Iran Government 1. Hezbollah (Lebanon) 2. Hamas (Gaza Strip) 3. Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Gaza Strip/West Bank) 4. The Houthis / Ansar Allah (Yemen) 5. Kata'ib Hezbollah (Iraq) 6. Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq (Iraq) 7. Harakat al-Nujaba (Iraq) 8. Kata'ib Sayyid al-Shuhada (Iraq) 9. Harakat Ansar Allah al-Awfiya (Iraq) 10. Kata'ib al-Imam Ali (Iraq) 11. Badr Organization (Iraq) 12. Liwa Fat…

This is downvoted, but comments mentioning pedophilia, Israel controlling the US, and other conspiratorial tropes are getting upvoted. And the folks will leave here believing still that a pro-Israel bias exists here.

This comment is being down-voted because this post isn't talking in favor the Iranian regime, it is talking about the atrocities that the people of Iran are having to live through, how their own government is self destructing and willing to take everyone with them, so a post about whom the regime has supported feels like it's missing the mark.

No one in this thread is thinking "This makes me like the Iranian regime" or "this is in favor of the Iranian regime". And so ofcourse your pro-Israel comments are even more besides the point, especially because this article is about the suffering of the Iranian people and you're take is "HN is anti-Israel whilst believing it is pro-Israel". HN isn't a single person, it's a lot of people with differing opinions and sometimes you'll have a pro-X sentiment and another time it might go the other way.

Also labeling 'pedophilia' as a 'conspiratorial trope' kind of defeats your entire comment, but maybe that's just me.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#208

Post by tpm »

carefree-bob wrote: post #189
tpm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of things the US could have done to stop proliferation was to actually honor its commitments it gave to Ukraine in the 1994 agreement in return to Ukraine agreeing to abandon their nukes. It didn't. Now a country sees that US is happy to bomb other non-nuclear countries, but not nuclear countries, and they doen't help even when they agreed to. There is exactly one lesson a country will learn from that.

It's a fair point, but I would flip this around a bit: Ukraine wants nukes to defend itself from Russia (a nuclear power). Taiwan wants nukes to defend itself from China (a nuclear power). Iran wants nukes to defend itself from the US and Israel (both nuclear powers). India and Pakistan both want nukes to defend themselves from each other (both nuclear powers). Now I don't want to get into a debate that it is really…

> Trying to prevent this is guaranteed to fail.

Most of European countries could have had nukes by now if they weren't stopped by the US/USSR; going by your logic it was inevitable once the UK and France had them the others would follow but they didn't. Of course at the time at least the American leadership was a bit more (forward) thinking than right now.

If you are the only person in the room with a gun, you have a huge advantage. With each additional person getting a gun too the advantage will be less, but it will still make sense to try to stop that process until everyone has a gun, and we are very far from that point. It is actually cheaper to try to stop proliferation than to build your defense with 'everyone has nukes now' in mind.

It's a failure of longterm thinking.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#209

Post by ethbr1 »

yubblegum wrote: post #164
ethbr1 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but traditional media has all been captured and the algorithms have done the rest We should be explicit about what happened: Google and Facebook skimmed off most of advertising revenue that previously supported journalism. Then neither originated new news in quantity or quality to replace what they ate. Revenues (from ads) without costs (of paying journalists) = their profits. Now, we have orders of magnitude less…

Sorry, have to call b.s. on lack of funds. Our media are owned by a very few, a handful, of corporations. And this happened before Google even existed. It happened in the 90s. > business model I don't know, is this willful ignorance? Press is political ...

A prior ill doesn't excuse a subsequent one.

That Sinclair, Nexstar, CC/iHeartMedia were allowed to consolidate in the 90s is bad.

That Google et al. decimated newspaper revenue from the mid-00s onwards without replacing their newsrooms is worse.*

I wouldn't have as big a gripe if Google or Facebook had started their own news bureaus and funded them with their profits. It still would have been a rounding error on their balance sheet.

But instead they destroyed a social good, took their bonuses, and called it a day.

* See 2007, the year Google was allowed to buy DoubleClick https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/newspapers...

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#210

Post by DrProtic »

tgma wrote: post #206
DrProtic wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consensus reached by the group that attacked them. Why do we have to go through this every time US attacks someone? Every time it turns out they lied through their teeth, yet people still believe. 30K is such an incredibly high number that you really have to be gullible to trust it.

> 30K is such an incredibly high number that you really have to be gullible to trust it. Correct; it's a very high number. Yes, either that, or shows how ignorant you are about the extent of brutality of the regime.

I’m ignorant?

I didn’t see any more brutality than I saw from US regime and especially ICE.

I never saw a person shot in the face in Iran but I saw in the US. Should we bomb US?

Also, 30k dead means there would be at least some proof. Once Iran reinstated internet after protests NO VIDEOS of killings showed up. Protesters decided not to record any of the killings?!

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