Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been honestly amazed people actually buy stuff that's not "workstation" gear given IME how much more reliably and consistently it works, but I guess even a generation or two used can be expensive.
overblown? billions of users use consumer tier hardware just fine. i have servers at home with years of uptime without any ECC memory
10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
201–210 of 495 posts
Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#202Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
That tells you one bit was changed. It doesn't prove that single bit changed due to a hardware failure. It could have been changed by broken software.
Broken software causes null pointer references and similar logic errors. It would be extremely unusual to have an inadvertent ptr ^= (1 that got inserted in the code by accident. That's just not the way that we write software.
Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#204People I think are overindexing on this being about "Bad hardware". We have long known that single bit errors in RAM are basically "normal" in terms of modern computers. Google did this research in 2009 to quantify the number of error events in commodity DRAM https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.c... They found 25,000 to 70,000 errors per billion device hours per Mbit and more than 8% of DIMMs a…
The sentiment was always ECC is a waste and a scam. My goodness the unhinged posts from people who thought it was a trick and couldn't fathom you don't know you're having bits flipped without it. "it's a rip off" without even looking and seeinf often the price was just that of the extra chip.
I've discussed it for 20 years since the first Mac Pro and people just did not want to hear that it had any use. Even after the Google study.
Consumers giving professionals advice. Was same with workstation graphics cards.
Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#205I've told this story before on HN, but my biz partner at ArenaNet, Mike O'Brien (creator of battle.net) wrote a system in Guild Wars circa 2004 that detected bitflips as part of our bug triage process, because we'd regularly get bug reports from game clients that made no sense. Every frame (i.e. ~60FPS) Guild Wars would allocate random memory, run math-heavy computations, and compare the results with a table of known…
Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#206Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#207I've told this story before on HN, but my biz partner at ArenaNet, Mike O'Brien (creator of battle.net) wrote a system in Guild Wars circa 2004 that detected bitflips as part of our bug triage process, because we'd regularly get bug reports from game clients that made no sense. Every frame (i.e. ~60FPS) Guild Wars would allocate random memory, run math-heavy computations, and compare the results with a table of known…
Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#208I've told this story before on HN, but my biz partner at ArenaNet, Mike O'Brien (creator of battle.net) wrote a system in Guild Wars circa 2004 that detected bitflips as part of our bug triage process, because we'd regularly get bug reports from game clients that made no sense. Every frame (i.e. ~60FPS) Guild Wars would allocate random memory, run math-heavy computations, and compare the results with a table of known…
As a community alpha tester of GW1, this was a fun read! Such an educational journey and what a well organized and fruitful one too. We could see the game taking shape before our eyes! As a European, I 100% relied on being young and single with those American time zones. :D Tests could end in my group at like 3 am, lol.
I remember in the earlier builds we only had a “heal area” spell, which would also heal monsters, and no “resurrect” spell, so it was always a challenge to take down a boss and not accidentally heal it when trying to prevent a player from dying.
Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#209Going to be downvoted, but I call bullshit on this. Bitflips are frequent (and yes ECC is an improvement but does not solve the problem), but not that frequent. One can either assume users that enabled telemetry are an odd bunch with flaky hardware, or the implementation isnt actually detecting bitflips (potentially, as the messages indicate), but a plathora of problems. Having a 1/10 probability a given struct is ei…
The only explanation I can see is if Firefox is installed on a user base of incredibly low quality hardware.
Re: 10% of Firefox crashes are caused by bitflips
#210> In other words up to 10% of all the crashes Firefox users see are not software bugs, they're caused by hardware defects! Bold claim. From my gut feeling this must be incorrect; I don't seem to get the same amount of crashes using chromium-based browsers such as thorium.
Are people getting so many FF crashes? Mine rarely does. I leave it running, opening and closing tabs, for weeks on end.