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TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

bbc.com

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Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#201

Post by khalic »

Traster wrote: post #178

I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…

No, saying that e2e encryption makes users _less_ safe is completely dishonest, nothing is fine about this.

The logic of "anything is better than before" is also fallacious.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#202

Post by roncesvalles »

khalic wrote: post #201
Traster wrote: post #178

I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…

No, saying that e2e encryption makes users _less_ safe is completely dishonest, nothing is fine about this. The logic of "anything is better than before" is also fallacious.

Depends on your definition of "safe". Imagine an adult DMs a nude photo to a minor (or other kinds of predation).

If it's E2EE, no one except the sender and receiver know about this conversation. You want an MITM in this case to detect/block such things or at least keep record of what's going on for a subpoena.

I agree that every messaging platform in the world shouldn't be MITM'd, but every messaging platform doesn't need to be E2EE'd either.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#205

Post by philipallstar »

roncesvalles wrote: post #202
khalic wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, saying that e2e encryption makes users _less_ safe is completely dishonest, nothing is fine about this. The logic of "anything is better than before" is also fallacious.

Depends on your definition of "safe". Imagine an adult DMs a nude photo to a minor (or other kinds of predation). If it's E2EE, no one except the sender and receiver know about this conversation. You want an MITM in this case to detect/block such things or at least keep record of what's going on for a subpoena. I agree that every messaging platform in the world shouldn't be MITM'd, but every messaging platform doesn'…

Imagine Hamas are your government and want to figure out who's gay. You don't want a MITM in case they can do this.

Pick your definition of safe.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#206

Post by philipallstar »

azinman2 wrote: post #89
debazel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are just too effect of a tool when building a surveillance state. We should have banned children from owning open computers a long time ago just like we do with Alcohol, Driving licenses, etc. Instead children would own special devices that are locked down and tagged with a "underage" flag when interacting with online services, while adults could continue as normal. We already heavily restrict the freedom of…

Would be a nightmare to implement and achieve the goal, but I have to say I think it’s more right than wrong. All of the data is very clear about the harms. China has restrictions for social media and screen time for kids — how do they implement this?

> China has restrictions for social media and screen time for kids — how do they implement this?

China is much more socially conservative, and less likely to abandon their kids to latest thing.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#207

Post by a13o »

swiftcoder wrote: post #194

> the controversial privacy feature used by nearly all its rivals "controversial" according to who? The NSA / GCHQ?

Listed in the article are the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children and the Internet Watch Foundation, which monitors and removes child sexual abuse material from the internet.

The recent Meta lawsuits also mention opposition from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and Meta's own executives: Monika Bickert (head of content policy) and Antigone Davis (global head of safety). Both executives mention the danger end-to-end encryption poses to children when attached to a social media graph.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/meta-executive-warn...

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#208

Post by shakna »

roncesvalles wrote: post #202
khalic wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, saying that e2e encryption makes users _less_ safe is completely dishonest, nothing is fine about this. The logic of "anything is better than before" is also fallacious.

Depends on your definition of "safe". Imagine an adult DMs a nude photo to a minor (or other kinds of predation). If it's E2EE, no one except the sender and receiver know about this conversation. You want an MITM in this case to detect/block such things or at least keep record of what's going on for a subpoena. I agree that every messaging platform in the world shouldn't be MITM'd, but every messaging platform doesn'…

The receiver has a proven and signed bundle, that they can upload to the abuse report. So the evidence has even stronger weight. They can already decrypt the message, they can still report it.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#209

Post by shakna »

Nursie wrote: post #200
shakna wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If _the government_ can't be trusted not to use a dumbass scheme, then no, it isn't a duh moment. You don't exactly get to dictate how the government implements it! The point is that systems today, aren't really well executed. So it is unreasonable to expect them to be well executed. If you can't trust people not to build the bomb well - then don't let them build a bomb.

> You don't exactly get to dictate how the government implements it! Who was talking about the government implementing it? I wasn't. And also "This has been done poorly in the past so we should never attempt to do it again, better" seems an odd way to go about things. There are well put together schemes by international standards bodies in this area now. Neither of the above links followed them.

If neither follow them, why do you have such faith that anybody would...?

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#210

Post by trashb »

londons_explore wrote: post #188
Traster wrote: post #178

I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…

Tiktok has private messaging, and it is used by hundreds of millions of people. IMO no consumer service should have private 1:1 messaging without e2e. Either only do public messaging (ie. Like a forum), or implement e2e.

In my experience most forums have private messaging.

Additionally I think it is fine to say "we don't support e2ee". I prefer honesty to a bad (leaky) e2ee implementation, at least the user can make an informed choice.

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