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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#201

Post by Aurornis »

WalterGR wrote: post #14
bryanlarsen wrote: post #6

I would have preferred permanent standard time to permanent daylight time. But I accept I'm in the minority, and even permanent daylight time is far superior to changing clocks twice a year.

> I would have preferred permanent standard time to permanent daylight time. Do you have children? In past HN threads, the preference largely comes down to whether you have children (and want more early morning light for safer trips to school) or not.

When we had kids I thought daylight savings time was going to be some kind of nightmare because ever DST thread on the internet cites children as the reason why's it terrible.

Then it was a complete non-issue for our kids. I had this conversation with several parent friends and they couldn't figure it out either.

At most we've had a day or two where the kids wake up 10-20 minutes later than the target time, but it's not a big deal. Honestly it takes me longer to adapt than my kids.

I can believe that some kids are hyper sensitive to clock changes, but the more I talk to fellow parents I think it's a minority case. Traveling a couple states away is a bigger swing than DST.

I think this is a talking point that came up on the internet at one point and then got amplified because so many liked the direction it was going, but never stopped to think about how accurate the claim was.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#202

Post by cameldrv »

Especially living that far north, they're going to find out next winter why we do the whole DST thing. It seems to be something like the Measles vaccine where you just have to have a big outbreak every once in a while so that the cultural memory is refreshed.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#203

Post by cyberax »

zetanor wrote: post #31
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

I've seen arguments about kids going to school in the darkness being thrown around a lot, but I've never understood why that (against fresh drivers) is always taken to be worse than kids coming home in the darkness (against exhausted drivers).

I grew up in an area outside the US, and quite a bit more to the north. I still remember how for several weeks each year I had to walk to school in the dark, sometimes having issues with seeing where I was walking.

The DST changes abruptly made everything visible again. Around that time we were also getting a permanent snow cover. And the whiteness of the snow significantly improved visibility for the rest of the winter.

So I don't think that the concerns are completely unfounded, but they are probably not as dire either.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#204

Post by redfern314 »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #170
redfern314 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite depiction of your dream world: https://qntm.org/abolish

> Uncle Steve is zero hours ahead. Uncle Steve is the same number of hours ahead that he has always been, and that's a thing that could be looked up just as easily as finding his time zone. I think the author is greatly exaggerating the degree to which time zones solve any of the problems mentioned. Uncle Steve might be on a different sleep schedule from me, regardless of whether or not he's in a different time zone.…

There's certainly a bit of dramatization/exaggeration here, but the main point is that it doesn't really fix the stated problem while also being a huge change for everyone to adapt to.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#205

Post by ex-aws-dude »

water-data-dude wrote: post #92

Everyone else is throwing in there 2¢, so here's my pet proposal. Here's the undeniable fact: everyone (ok, almost everyone, but it's a rounding error) hates the switchover in spring, when you have to get up an hour earlier. Conversely, everyone (or a rough approximation) likes the switchover in the fall, when we get to sleep in an extra hour. So why don't we just get rid of the switchover in the spring and get rid o…

I vote we sleep in an extra hour for BOTH time changes

Now that's a win-win

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#206

Post by anal_reactor »

somat wrote: post #105
jcranmer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people hate standard time in winter because the sun sets at 4 or 5, and they want the sun to instead set at 8 or 9 like it does in summer. DST in winter doesn't actually give you the 8 or 9 sunset, it gives you a 5 or 6 sunset (which doesn't get you all that much) combined with moving your sunrise to 8 or 9, which causes its own set of issues most people don't think about. The last time we went to year-round…

Obviously(/s) the solution is to change to a sunset centered day. new day starts at sunset so people can get up late and enjoy the maxim number of daylight hours. I always find it strange how particular people are about the numbers attached a purely astronomical phenomena(myself included, but I am pretty hard in the "let the sun figure it out camp"). If they want more "daylight" hours then get up at a time to enjoy t…

I think that midnight should be around current 4AM because that's the brief moment when party people already sleep and work people aren't awake yet.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#207

Post by sjkoelle »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #157
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Well, I'm not one of those people. I like waking up with the sun and driving to work in the daylight. The idea that DST solves anything absolutely blows my mind. If you want the ability to start your work day earlier and end it earlier, that seems like a worker protection bill that needs to be passed. DST is the kludgiest kludge that ever kludged.

yeah im curious if people will end up liking it. sucks from my perspective.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#208

Post by stackskipton »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #170
redfern314 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite depiction of your dream world: https://qntm.org/abolish

> Uncle Steve is zero hours ahead. Uncle Steve is the same number of hours ahead that he has always been, and that's a thing that could be looked up just as easily as finding his time zone. I think the author is greatly exaggerating the degree to which time zones solve any of the problems mentioned. Uncle Steve might be on a different sleep schedule from me, regardless of whether or not he's in a different time zone.…

I think you missed entire point of operation.

If everywhere runs on UTC, they will still have different times when people are working/not working/sleeping so you still have to look something up and figure it out.

With time zones, you look up "What time is it?", realize it's 4:30AM and since most people around the world follow similar schedule, you quickly realize he's fast asleep.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#209

Post by paxys »

vesinisa wrote: post #107
PhilippGille wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very dishonest take, as I'm sure you know that Sommerzeit proponents have reasons other than "summer sounds better than winter". For example most people just wake up and go to work in the morning, but in the evening they meet friends, BBQ, hike/run through nature, do sports etc., and prefer doing those activities while it's bright outside.

What stops you from going to work one hour early, so you get off earlier as well? Most employers these days allow flexible working hours. And if we are permanently moving our clocks to advance by an hour, why stop at just one hour? Why not have +2h or +3h so we get even more brighter evenings.

"Most employers" definitely don't allow flexible working hours. You have to be in specific sectors – basically just "modern" tech companies – to have that privilege. And that is a very tiny slice of the working population.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#210

Post by Arch485 »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #170
redfern314 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite depiction of your dream world: https://qntm.org/abolish

> Uncle Steve is zero hours ahead. Uncle Steve is the same number of hours ahead that he has always been, and that's a thing that could be looked up just as easily as finding his time zone. I think the author is greatly exaggerating the degree to which time zones solve any of the problems mentioned. Uncle Steve might be on a different sleep schedule from me, regardless of whether or not he's in a different time zone.…

I feel like days are a non-issue; they would just start at different times (UTC) in different territories. This wouldn't make things any more complicated than they already are (currently, if I want to talk to someone in Australia, I have to look up what time it is in Australia and infer the day of the week from that, if necessary. If everything is under UTC, I know what "time" it is, but I still have to look up what day it is).

Most of the issues time zones cause are not "day of the week" related anyways (at least in my experience), so I think having to figure out what day of the week it is somewhere else wouldn't be a common problem anyways.

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