Earlier quoted context omitted.
The best practices are changing. Many accessibility features were built due to the computer not being understand correctly. For example how something that looks like a checkbox despite being just a div is would not get recognized properly. Now with AI, the AI understands what a checkbox is and can understand from the styling that there is a checkbox there.
That's a huge resource cost though, and simply unnecessary. We should be building semantically valid HTML from the beginning rather than leaning on a GPU cluster to parse the function based on the entire HTML, CSS, and JS on the page (or a screenshot requiring image parsing by a word predictor).
WebMCP is available for early preview
201–210 of 226 posts
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole point of an agent, though, is to overcome obstacles to accomplish tasks on your behalf. And since an agent is a computer program, the most efficient way to accomplish tasks using computer services is though APIs. Websites are first and foremost human interfaces, not computer interfaces. Having an agent use a browser to accomplish tasks on the principal’s behalf is a backstop. It’s for when service providers…
I think that is incredibly foolish a perspective. Rooted in old ridiculous slipshod biases, with no respect for users & their agency, and makes unsupported weak technical arguments that define away the possibility of APIs being anything but better. > the most efficient way to accomplish tasks using computer services is though APIs You don't state efficient at what, so I'll first argue you best case: energy efficient,…
> I think that is incredibly foolish a perspective. Rooted in old ridiculous slipshod biases, with no respect for users & their agency, and makes unsupported weak technical arguments that define away the possibility of APIs being anything but better.
Since this is a technical discussion, let's debate these based on their technological pros and cons, and avoid the characterizations, shall we?
> You don't state efficient at what, so I'll first argue you best case: energy efficient, least amount of computing done.
Yup.
> Both provide mechanistic access. If the user already had the browser open and is going for help, the difference is nearly nothing. It's different wire formats. We are talking the smallest tiniest peanuts of difference.
The difference may be "nearly nothing" at individual scale but not at global scale. The aggregate difference in energy and data transfer required to power a full browser experience vs. APIs is enormous. If it weren't true, Google, Amazon, and Meta wouldn't have spent nearly as much blood and treasure in optimizations, both in hardware and software, as they have over the last 25+ years. You can't just hand-wave this away. If you told Google and Meta that gRPC and Thrift were "peanuts of difference" and "trivial" they'd laugh in your face and show you the door. (You can always tell when someone's not an experienced engineer as soon as they bandy about the word "trivial.")
Again, browser-based interfaces are for humans. They change frequently, often at the whim of designers. As they evolve, agents must evolve with them. That sort of instability contributes to the resources needed to mechanize them. Compare against APIs, which often have stability guarantees, or at the very least, are only additive over time.
> Which WebMCP is a direct answer to, by allowing pages to offer a low friction access path that allows mechanistic control. Without the LLM having to "backstop" scrape and parse and puppeteer/playwright/devtools-protocol it's way through.
This I understand. But APIs are even more efficient still.
> If the agent is using an API, they have to craft a de-novo interface at every step of the process, either as text responses or MCP UI or other. The agent has to reinterpret and describe: it can't just show us what is, short of showing us OpenAPI definitions and json payloads.
I think you may be underestimating the extent to which this will need to happen with browser-based MCP connectivity as well.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to dive deep into the rest of your comment, as it's just too verbose and narrative-driven. If you'd like to make concise and concrete technological arguments, though, I'm open to that.
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that is incredibly foolish a perspective. Rooted in old ridiculous slipshod biases, with no respect for users & their agency, and makes unsupported weak technical arguments that define away the possibility of APIs being anything but better. > the most efficient way to accomplish tasks using computer services is though APIs You don't state efficient at what, so I'll first argue you best case: energy efficient,…
Wow, that was a lot of words. > I think that is incredibly foolish a perspective. Rooted in old ridiculous slipshod biases, with no respect for users & their agency, and makes unsupported weak technical arguments that define away the possibility of APIs being anything but better. Since this is a technical discussion, let's debate these based on their technological pros and cons, and avoid the characterizations, shall…
Your proposal to use APIs is a grossly inefficient waste of LLM's time and energy, and far worse, a misuse of human attention that could be much better directed with the multiplayer/coop/peership of webmcp. You propose inventing brand new communication systems for every interaction, and haven't once considered the merits of leveraging the existing communication medium that users know. Rather than engage in WebMCP & what it brings, it's been trying to hide and confuse the matter & bury any discussion under a sea of objections, objections that don't even carry technical merit. If you want to actually reply to any of the interesting things rather than blocking and obstructing discussion, I'll happily re-engage.
I've found everything you have said to be radically damaging to understanding the problems that be, by vastly limiting consideration away from all interesting topics and raising only naysaying quibbles that don't address how users and agents would actually do work. Users and agents need to work together. That's simple, and your posts actively distract from what's unique and different here. I'm not going to accept another null response and then waste my time again, and it's sad that people have been steered away from thoughtful consideration like this.
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, that was a lot of words. > I think that is incredibly foolish a perspective. Rooted in old ridiculous slipshod biases, with no respect for users & their agency, and makes unsupported weak technical arguments that define away the possibility of APIs being anything but better. Since this is a technical discussion, let's debate these based on their technological pros and cons, and avoid the characterizations, shall…
No, the characterization is very important. You've shown no connection to what's actually at stake, to the engagement patterns here, to the need for people to actually use agents in a way they understand, to the needs to work through & arrive together with your agent at an answer. We cant have a technical discussion until you actually show some engagement in the core topics, but you have been too busy raising frivolo…
I’m not entirely sure what your angle is, but your tirade makes it sound like you’re emotionally invested in this (and potentially financially invested) and you’re frightened. A confident person doesn’t need all these histrionics.
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, the characterization is very important. You've shown no connection to what's actually at stake, to the engagement patterns here, to the need for people to actually use agents in a way they understand, to the needs to work through & arrive together with your agent at an answer. We cant have a technical discussion until you actually show some engagement in the core topics, but you have been too busy raising frivolo…
If your argument has merit, we will see it win in the marketplace. If it doesn’t, then it will not. Simple as that. And I’m definitely not the only one who is looking for an explanation of why an agent-browser interface is the superior approach vis-a-vis the alternatives. I’m not entirely sure what your angle is, but your tirade makes it sound like you’re emotionally invested in this (and potentially financially inve…
Hackers deserve better than such. There is a moral spiritual calling they ought feel to want to explore & think.
I do think WebMCP faces extremely long odds against success. It's incredibly unlikely to win. You started this by talking about companies wanting to do the wrong thing, by discussing how they hate giving users freedom to use the web as they want: WebMCP runs up against that problem. It only wins if a critical mass of users adopt it & can advocate for it, find it better enough & find enough voice to get it adopted anyways. That seems super unlikely. Your practical objection is most real, and part of the brutal badness of this reality. The odds of success only get far worse from there: I don't think a lot of users will have on-ramps to use this technology well. Very few users understand tool calling, very few will have interesting extensions or systems to make use of WebMCP. Especially with mobile browsers often not supporting extensions.
Once again I think you are just so off the mark on the other thing though: 'Let the market see' is wildly out of the spirit of a hackerly discussion. We ought assess for ourselves, be using this space to try to figure out what is good, and what we want to win, and why, on what merits. We ought be calibrating and pushing, trying to develop our thoughts. Humankind the toolmaker is meant to explore, to understand; that's why I dislike naysaying & non-engagement so much. It's against my spiritual values, against in my view the best parts of our nature.
Possibility and good is delicate. Seeing unengaged unthoughtful disregard of it does get to my heart.
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It seems uncontroversial that users will likely want to use AI to find info for them and do things for them Lots of weasel words in there. You're doing a lot of work with "seems", "uncontroversial" and "likely". Power users and tech professionals probably want this or their bosses really want this and they fall in line. But a large portion of the 'normal' users still struggle with basic search, distrust AI or just…
Is the opposite. Only HNers distrust AI. The "normies" love it and are far less skeptical. Few of them recognize when it's messing up.
This is not a discussion about accuracy. The market disagrees with you. Microsoft tried to shove AI into their user base with mixed results.
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is the opposite. Only HNers distrust AI. The "normies" love it and are far less skeptical. Few of them recognize when it's messing up.
> The "normies" love it and are far less skeptical. Few of them recognize when it's messing up. This is not a discussion about accuracy. The market disagrees with you. Microsoft tried to shove AI into their user base with mixed results.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/08/04/openai-chatgpt-700-million-u...
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your argument has merit, we will see it win in the marketplace. If it doesn’t, then it will not. Simple as that. And I’m definitely not the only one who is looking for an explanation of why an agent-browser interface is the superior approach vis-a-vis the alternatives. I’m not entirely sure what your angle is, but your tirade makes it sound like you’re emotionally invested in this (and potentially financially inve…
I just really dislike the uselessness of people who naysay & dont engage! This poor world suffers SO MUCH from Brandolini's Law, from bad information being so easy to create. My heart is torn by bad engagement, by misdirection, away from the good and the interesting and the possible, and there's such an asymmetry that the truth and possibility face, so many ways for potential to be sapped and drained. Hackers deserve…
To exist is to recognize the material constraints of reality; there are things humans won't ever discover. Ergo we have to prioritize what is useful.
This proposal is not useful. It goes against the fundamental interest of website owners to differentiate and build up a moat around direct user relationship and data. WebMCP is frankly just a land grab attempt by Google to get more free stuff from publishers.
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess I was asking - assuming that WebMCP isn't totally misguided - which of course is an assumption - is there anything that current accessibility standards can learn from WebMCP - ie why did they feel the need to create it?
I'm not aware of anything WebMCP could add that wouldn't be more useful as an improvement to accessibility tooling instead. MCP is ultimately another solution to trying to make RPC(ish) situations more RESTful. I.e. they need self-documenting, discoverable APIs. That's exactly what you can get from both HTML and the accessibility tree, though. We don't need another implementation for it. My guess (conjecture here) is…
This leaves agents trying to work out page intent, allowed values for text fields - parsing returned pages for working out success or failure etc.
I'm assuming that's why they want what is effectively an in page API - that massively improves machine accessibility and can piggy back on browser authentication systems so the agent can operate on the users behalf.
Re: WebMCP is available for early preview
#210I've been using MCP with Claude Code for a while now (Google Maps, Swiggy, Figma servers) and the local tool-use model works well because I control both sides. I pick which servers to trust, I see every tool call, and I can deny anything sketchy. WebMCP flips that. The website exposes the tools and the browser decides what to call. The security model gets a lot harder when you're trusting random sites to define their…