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Keep Your Identity Small

paulgraham.com

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Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#201

Post by bdr »

immad wrote: post #67
pg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. That's why I was careful to qualify it with "all other things being equal." In general identity gives you strength while making you stupid. This can sometimes be a good trade, especially in stressful situations. E.g. I think this is one reason people in the US are so much more religious than they were when I was a kid. People who 30 years ago might have been skeptical of preachers are now thinking that…

"identity gives you strength while making you stupid" Couldn't something similar be said about any emotional response. In that emotional responses give you something but are inherently irrational.

You could also see emotion as heuristic behavior guides that were calculated by evolution. Many decisions are so computationally complex that reasoning isn't useful.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#202

Post by DaniFong »

jacoblyles wrote: post #193
DaniFong wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddhist practitioners are human too, of course, but a central practice in Buddhism is to dissolve and refute concrete belief in a persistent self and consciousness.

A central practice of Buddhists in 13th century Japan was to stab other people with swords. Humans have wonderfully malleable minds.

These practices are not really inconsistent...

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#203

Post by billswift »

jacquesm wrote: post #133
immad wrote: post #8

I think I concur that in educated discussions Identity does not help, but I have been thinking through the importance of identity for a while. I think in many situations identity gives you strength. I have an identity within Y Combinator, with my family, with people that went to my University, in the countries I have lived in etc. These fragments of my identity all give me strength, it means I would help people out t…

Keeping your identity small is great advice, but it is actually biased advice. If you keep your identity small you are not going to be associating with any large group holding common beliefs, which would argue against associating with 'a political party', 'a religion' and so on. This is not a binary issues, everybody 'identifies' with some group more or less than with others. For instance, I had no part in the Romans…

I think to some extent you are confusing sympathy or agreement with identity. I think identity requires both the internaliztion of a belief and an emotional commitment to its truth.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#204

Post by billswift »

brianto2010 wrote: post #46

I think that the point of the article is not to "Keep Your Identity Small", but to not be a jerk about it. "Which topics engage people's identity depends on the people, not the topic." People's actions are not the result of their beliefs, but themselves. The topic of conflict, religion (one of your examples), is only the medium. To rephrase, people decide when to fight, the people's beliefs are only a push. With enou…

I think identity requires both the internaliztion of a belief and an emotional commitment to its truth. Beliefs make you stupid and strong, especially shared beliefs.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#205

Post by billswift »

GHFigs wrote: post #182
yters wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and pg also doesn't observe that a person's identity tends to be strongly tied to things that provide for their welfare. For the common person, religion and politics do this. For the elite, not so much. But, say if they are programmers, they can have a strong identity tie to their editor (vi vs emacs) or language, since they depend on these things to prosper in life. This is not merely an unthinking thing on the…

The problem is not the belief, but that strongly identifying with something can render you blind to (among other things) whether it really is providing for your welfare or not. (Historical examples abound, but pg's example of someone who died over an argument about two brands of pickup truck is apt. What benefits might be experienced by the belief are outweighed by the evident risks involved in identifying with it so…

I think he is confusing beliefs with identity. I think identity requires both the internaliztion of a belief and an emotional commitment to its truth. It is easier to establish the commitment for shared, socially approved beliefs that are regularly being reinforced by others - the main reason religion is accepted.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#206

Post by billswift »

rmason wrote: post #163

Not your best effort. You seem to be arguing against having core beliefs. Yet having read your essays I would find it extremely hard to believe that you practice what you preach.

I think identity requires both the internalization of a belief and an emotional commitment to its truth.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#207

Post by billswift »

bianco wrote: post #200

Identity is not the problem. And identity is always strong, and has to be strong to be able to achieve great things. We are all very vulnerable when it comes to things that are rooted deeply in our own live (read: soul). So we behave quite aggressively when someone touches these things -- especially when we have been hurt there (and who hasn't been hurt in our violent times?). If anybody is telling me that I should k…

I think identity requires both the internalization of a belief and an emotional commitment to its truth. Paul's argument is that you should not incorporate unimportant beliefs into your identity. I suspect the "strength" of a person's identity is either unrelated to its size in these terms, or possibly even inversely related - that is, the more peripheral beliefs you have incorporated into your identity the more diffuse and weaker it is.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#208

Post by ewelfare »

f3lix wrote: post #187
ewelfare wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Mandela is a great example of someone who was able to change his ways from hate and violence to understanding and compassion. If he can do it, I guess there is hope for online flamers and trolls ;)

The saying goes: one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist. I made this account especially because I knew I will be regarded as a “troll” by some. The real world is unfortunately not entirely black and white. I never said that what Mandela fought for was wrong - I said that the way it was done was wrong. Unfortunately most people spend time on the Apartheid era's misdeeds but ignore that of the liber…

Great - then use Tutu for the example. Just be careful that you don't go through life missing the point in discussions by getting caught up nit-picking the examples people use.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#209

Post by bugmenot »

Everything is politics, religion is politics, javascript is politics. Anything where disagreement is possible incurs politics. This is why javascript discussions descend into religious debates and also why the premise and conclusions behind your entire essay is garbage.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#210

Post by neilk »

DaniFong wrote: post #202
jacoblyles wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A central practice of Buddhists in 13th century Japan was to stab other people with swords. Humans have wonderfully malleable minds.

These practices are not really inconsistent...

Really, it's a short step from "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" to "if you meet some dude on the road...."
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