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Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

arstechnica.com

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Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#201

Post by KaiserPro »

paxys wrote: post #47
tmellon2 wrote: post #35

Elon Musk mentioned that just a 100 square mile grid of Solar can power the entire USA. I did not believe it; a simple calculation later, I was convinced. The USA of yesteryear would have done this already and more. Sure other sources are required, but honestly we humans have to advance beyond burning dead things for fuel.

Not 100 sq miles but 100 mile x 100 mile, which is 10,000 sq miles. And that assumes peak efficiency. Factoring in degredation you'd have to multiply this by 2. Not "just" by any stretch of the imagination. This is larger than Rhode Island and Lake Erie combined. Aka a pipe dream. Might as well "just" build a dyson sphere while we are at it.

I mean thats a big number, but if you think about the amount of lakes needed to run hydro, its not actually that much of a number.

I'm not saying musk is a clever man for pointing this out. Even greenpeace said stuff like this in the early 2000s.

the point is, it sounds bigger than it is. For oil storage, the US has something like 36 square miles of storage (converting from cubic to square isnt accurate)

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#202

Post by modeless »

Lucasoato wrote: post #156
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #133

It's incredible to me that California's primary generation source is cyclical solar — which it primarily offloads to PNW [0], who offsets any missing California solar with its MASSIVE Columbia River Hydro. Essentially co-dependant renewables, the entirety of West Coast through Colorado balancing primarily between solar and hydro (and natgas peakers). Nothing like Québec (¡hydro!), but still something . [0] https://i.…

Every time someone posts a imgur link on HN I get this as response: Imgur is temporarily over capacity. Please try again later.

That's what it says when it doesn't like the look of your IP. I get it when I'm on my VPN.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#203

Post by nerdralph »

devin wrote: post #181

Does anyone in these comments have any tips for would-be solar farmers or people who are generally interested in being part of building out the future of our grid? I'd like to get my hands dirty. I'm talking about getting into 5-10 MW projects, not solar on a roof.

Don't start with a 5MW project. Start with a 10-20kW ground-mount project in your back yard. Then build a 100-200kW project before trying MW.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#204

Post by idiotsecant »

This isn't a good thing unless it's paired with storage and transmission upgrades. Every time this kind of story posts I make this same comment and am met with the same probably well-meaning but ignorant responses. Solar generation is easy and cheap and simple. Actually getting that power where it needs to be, when it needs to be there is complex and expensive. You either need to store it or you need to transmit it very long distances, neither of which we can do effectively right now. Most of California routinely goes into negative power pricing - this is not the mark of a healthy system, it represents a massive inefficiency and destabilizing factor.

We need to pressure politicians to subsidize pump storage powerplants and massive transmission system upgrades (which means being ok with permitting new transmission lines) it's simply impossible to continue increasing the solar on the grid otherwise, we are rapidly approaching instability.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#205

Post by cyberax »

ceejayoz wrote: post #176
inglor_cz wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oxen? Paid laborers? " In other words, animal and human muscle, we agree on that. I didn't claim that all human labour was non-free, far from that. Every classical civilization had paid artisans and employees as well. But the paid professions tended to be the skilled ones, and the non-free ones tended to be the arduous, backbreaking ones. "The South was notable in clinging to slavery long after it had been abolished…

> In other words, animal and human muscle, we agree on that. Sure. My objection is to the slavery bit, not the "humans doing work" bit. > But the paid professions tended to be the skilled ones, and the non-free ones tended to be the arduous, backbreaking ones. There were plenty of non-slave manual laborers throughout history. Doubly so for chattel slavery of the sort practiced in the South. > Elsewhere where? If I lo…

> The Russians you mention managed it in 1723

In 1861.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#206

Post by viewtransform »

dzonga wrote: post #126

The trump administration by refusing to admit the superior metrics of solar, they're just burying their heads in sand. As admitting that solar is now a superior and cost effective means of energy means admitting that the US is no longer top dog. As empires are built on mastering a source of energy. the Portuguese | Dutch - mastered wind to power their ships. the British mastered coal to power Industrial Revolution. A…

California power generation profile yesterday showing solar and battery proportion.

https://engaging-data.com/california-electricity-generation/...

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#207

Post by cmrdporcupine »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #155
floatrock wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cute ideal, but you can't disentangle government from the energy sector. It's too big. How do markets build infrastructure as large as an LNG terminal without the government tipping the scales with various guarantees? How do you build a literal coastline of refineries without government clearing the way with permissive regulations? How can you say "let markets figure it out" when the US military is the acquisi…

> you can't disentangle government from the energy sector Nobody argued as much. My point is the net effect of social pressure on the energy transformation has been costly—financially and politically—for relatively little bang.

Because the opponents of it have the deepest pockets of literally anybody in the world.

A whole class of parasites who have made their lives as highwaymen on the densest energy source (outside of uranium) -- that literally comes out of the ground -- have spent at least the last 20 years actively suppressing alternatives.

In some places (see Alberta, Canada), they have literally outlawed renewable developments.

In this context political advocacy, education, and subsidy remain absolutely imperative.

There is no "free market" way out of the current situation regardless of how economically viable solar is. In the real world markets and power are intrinsically linked.

It's also actually also an emergency

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#208

Post by ceejayoz »

cyberax wrote: post #205
ceejayoz wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other words, animal and human muscle, we agree on that. Sure. My objection is to the slavery bit, not the "humans doing work" bit. > But the paid professions tended to be the skilled ones, and the non-free ones tended to be the arduous, backbreaking ones. There were plenty of non-slave manual laborers throughout history. Doubly so for chattel slavery of the sort practiced in the South. > Elsewhere where? If I lo…

> The Russians you mention managed it in 1723 In 1861.

The link lists this in 1723:

> Peter the Great converts all house slaves into house serfs, effectively making slavery illegal in Russia.

1861 ditches serfdom, too.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#210

Post by Tade0 »

nerdralph wrote: post #199
dzonga wrote: post #126

The trump administration by refusing to admit the superior metrics of solar, they're just burying their heads in sand. As admitting that solar is now a superior and cost effective means of energy means admitting that the US is no longer top dog. As empires are built on mastering a source of energy. the Portuguese | Dutch - mastered wind to power their ships. the British mastered coal to power Industrial Revolution. A…

Panels prices bottomed about a year ago below many manufacturer's cash cost, and have gone mostly sideways since. https://www.pvxchange.com/Price-Index If silver stays above $70/oz, prices will likely go up by 5-10%. Until Perovskite tandem technology matures, there's unlikely to be any significant reduction in PV module prices.

Manufacturers already reacted and intensified efforts to replace silver in panels with copper:

https://finance-commerce.com/2026/02/solar-panels-silver-to-...

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