Earlier quoted context omitted.
False dichotomy. Your responsibility as a parent is to your children. Your responsibility as a citizen is to run your government effectively. Captain TLDR above is basically saying "fuck other people's kids", which is abdicating his civic responsibility.
>which is abdicating his civic responsibility He pays taxes that goes to schools, doesn't he? Otherwise, I am pretty sure he didn't sign a contract that said: "You are responsible for improving the well-being of kids you will never meet."
North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
201–210 of 314 posts
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So you are proposing that the purpose of education is indoctrination into value system X, and propose that a successful system will indoctrinate more people? What did you think it was? > Your goal is now vaguely stated. But how do I actually count the # of people concerned with individual rights/positive outlook/etc? Uh, polling?
Hopefully the goal isn't to indoctrinate people but to prepare them to go to college, get a job, make money, spend money, etc.
Can you tell me why these are good things to prepare people for?
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#203"I lost my job only due to my lack of seniority. I was devastated." He ("he" is correct; I was confused by the given name at first until looking the person up with a Google search) should blame the typical master contract with the teachers in the school district for that. That is a standard contract provision recommended by schoolteacher unions whether a state has a "union shop" or "right-to-work" rules. Usually, sch…
This article wasn't about him getting fired in Oregon, it was a lengthy rant about him quitting in North Carolina. The reason you chose instead to focus your lengthy comment on that one throwaway line is because it reinforces your preexisting view that unions are the main problem with education, even though this article is mainly about some of the other problems.
I just saw your reply. What would you suggest should be done about the problems you think are most prominently mentioned in the submitted letter?
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
Classroom work? Like it used to be when we were kids. You went to school, and learned the material in class, and the teacher had a grasp on where everyone in the class. You did homework, and took tests prepared by your teacher. Now teachers in some states have to spend 30 min a day just teaching HOW TO TAKE A STANDARDIZED TEST! "here you go little johnney, fill in the bubble the whole way"
What prevents the teacher from giving his class all the answers so that he doesn't have to work and doesn't get fired for his students grades being too low.
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So you are proposing that the purpose of education is indoctrination into value system X, and propose that a successful system will indoctrinate more people? What did you think it was? > Your goal is now vaguely stated. But how do I actually count the # of people concerned with individual rights/positive outlook/etc? Uh, polling?
Polling is another form of standardized testing (unless you propose asking different questions of each participant). It seems you don't object to standardized testing at all, but merely to the goals of the current school system (conveying knowledge/skills rather than indoctrination).
No, it's not. Polling is an analysis of a large population through sampling. Standardized testing, in the context we're talking about, is an evaluation of performance based on the performance of a different group.
> It seems you don't object to standardized testing at all, but merely to the goals of the current school system
Here's the funny part. The goals are expressed through the school system. The kind of reform I'd like to see (read: infeasible in the short-term, at least) involve societal upheaval. I can talk about it, as long as you recognize that I've been working for the past few months on trying to figure out a good way of capturing my thoughts and have yet to succeed to my satisfaction.
I can't speak for wpietri, but my opposition to standardized testing is multifarious. For instance, I've experienced its detrimental effects on education firsthand. (In high school, there were a number of interesting topics that we had no time to cover because it was more important to teach to the test. My desire for education reform was born right there.) For the same reason, I dislike grading and GPAs and such. I don't consider this opposition very important, though, because I think we're teaching the wrong things to begin with.
> conveying knowledge/skills
The decision of which pieces of knowledge and which skills to focus on is a political decision and a form of indoctrination. Otherwise, you're not actually conveying anything so much as facilitating the ability to discover/develop knowledge/skills.
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
>which is abdicating his civic responsibility He pays taxes that goes to schools, doesn't he? Otherwise, I am pretty sure he didn't sign a contract that said: "You are responsible for improving the well-being of kids you will never meet."
It's government of, by, and for the people. He is responsible for the health of the country, just as every other citizen is.
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#207This is what people who have enough faith in themselves to find another job do when they are in a terrible situation. I'm tired of hearing teachers complain about life as a teacher, but never quit. That tells me that they don't have faith in the marketability of their skills to take the plunge and get a different job.
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whoops.. I think I accidentally downvoted you. Someone vote him back up, could you? That's an interesting trend. I think it could be resolved by instead having the ones doing the teaching decide on what sorts of standards and tests should be used to appraise performance. Some of my family members are teachers, and I hear more and more about how they are given less freedom to teach creatively and are instead forced to…
The problem right now is that the bureaucracy in place is a result of the CBAs of teachers unions preventing the firing of bad teachers or the introduction of regulations strictly for the sake of the student. In almost every instance of a public service, the right-but-left or left-but-right mentality of Americans creates a bureaucratic Mexican standoff: "We'll stop regulating you when you stop being shits." "We'll st…
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whoops.. I think I accidentally downvoted you. Someone vote him back up, could you? That's an interesting trend. I think it could be resolved by instead having the ones doing the teaching decide on what sorts of standards and tests should be used to appraise performance. Some of my family members are teachers, and I hear more and more about how they are given less freedom to teach creatively and are instead forced to…
The problem right now is that the bureaucracy in place is a result of the CBAs of teachers unions preventing the firing of bad teachers or the introduction of regulations strictly for the sake of the student. In almost every instance of a public service, the right-but-left or left-but-right mentality of Americans creates a bureaucratic Mexican standoff: "We'll stop regulating you when you stop being shits." "We'll st…
-- You don't need statistics. There is no measurement.
This is the problem: Seniority rules. skill, virtue, talent are uncorrelated variables. This is by design, au fait.
Re: North Carolina teacher's resignation letter
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hopefully the goal isn't to indoctrinate people but to prepare them to go to college, get a job, make money, spend money, etc.
> go to college, get a job, make money, spend money Can you tell me why these are good things to prepare people for?