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Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

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Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#202
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenZiti (Apache 2.0): https://github.com/openziti/ziti

This is a secure mesh network, but it appears to be for embedding into applications, not a "private VPN" like Tailscale, or do I misunderstand?

Embedding is an option, but tunnelers - https://netfoundry.io/docs/openziti/reference/tunnelers/ - and edge routers (which can front legacy services without modifying them) also exist.

The difference is architectural; Tailscale is a mesh VPN, whereas OpenZiti is an identity-first, zero trust overlay network. This makes OpenZiti service-centric and deny-by-default, not network-centric. Instead of “join a private network,” you get access only to explicitly authorised services — with no ambient reachability at all. Its also 100% open source. If you want a simple productised, SaaS experience, NetFoundry, the company behind OpenZiti provides that.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#204

I wonder if someone might indulge me by answering a question or two about Tailscale. I have a self-managed wireguard network which works, but probably isn't very smart or elegant. From what I can gather, Tailscale does a lot of "magic" things to accomplish its goals, and some of them actually have "magic" right in the name. As a system administrator by trade, I have been bitten SO MANY TIMES by things that try to aut…

It's difficult for us to maintain documentation of exactly the kind you'd want there, though we do try to keep up with docs as best we can. In particular there is a fairly wide array of heuristics in the client to adapt to the environment that it's running in - and this is most true on Linux where there are far far too many different configuration patterns and duplicate subsystems (example: https://tailscale.com/blog/sisyphean-dns-client-linux).

To try and take a general poke at the question in more of the context you leave at the end:

- We use rule based routing to try to dodge arbitrary order conflicts in the routing tables.

- We install our rules with high priority because traffic intended for the tailnet hitting non-tailscale interfaces is typically undesirable (it's often plain text).

- We integrate with systemd-resolved _by preference_ on Linux if it is present, so that if you're using cgroup/namepsace features (containers, sandbox runtimes, etc etc) then this provides the expected dns/interface pairings. If we can't find systemd-resolved we fall back to modifying /etc/resolv.conf, which is unavoidably an area of conflict on such systems (on macos and windows they have more broadly standard solutions we can use instead, modulo other platform details).

- We support integration with both iptables and nftables (the latter is behind manual configuration currently due to slightly less broad standardization, but is defaulted by heuristic on some distros/in some environments (like gokrazy, some containers)). In nftables we create our own tables, and just install jumps into the xtables conventional locations so as to be compatible with ufw, firewalld and so on.

- We do our best in tailscaled's sshd to implement login in a broadly compatible way, but again this is another of those places the linux ecosystem lacks standards and there's a ton of distro variation right now (freedesktops concerns start at a higher level so they haven't driven standardization, everyone else like openssh have their own pile of best-guesses, and distros go ham with patches).

- We need a 1360 byte MTU path to peers for full support/stability. Our inner/interface MTU is 1280, the minimum MTU for IPv6, once packed in WireGuard and outer IPv6, that's 1360.

I can't answer directly based on "very custom" if there will be any challenges to deal with. We do offer support to work through these things though, and have helped some users with fairly exotic setups.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#205

[dead]

Three AI-generated positive comments in the row from new (green) accounts, with some being answered by Tailscale employees looks like AI-assisted astroturfing PR in hackernews. It’s rampart on every major social network (Reddit especially), interesting to see it live first time on the HN.

I am not anti advertising, I just think pushing AI into places were people interact is very bad behavior and should be punished.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#206
post #3

How does Tailscale make money? I really like their service but I'm worried about a rug pull in the future. Has anyone tried alternative FOSS solutions? Also, sometimes it seems like I get rate limited on Tailscale. Has anyone had that experience? This usually happens with multiple SSH connections at the same time.

Through paying users like me.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t there separation of the control and data planes? I don’t think Tailscale get to see any of your network traffic.

They need to know how/where to route your outbound traffic. That inherently includes plaintext DNS, TLS handshakes, and otherwise plaintext traffic (like HTTP for example). Anybody wanting to see what Tailscale is able to see can simply sniff any router interface passing outbound traffic before it enters the WireGuard tunnel interface.

No, that’s not quite true. The wireguard tunnels that the Tailscale daemon creates only go to your own machines. Nothing going through those tunnels goes to or is seen by Tailscale the company. Sometimes those tunnels go through a proxy (especially when you’re afflicted by CGNAT), but the proxy sees only encrypted traffic.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#210

If you're sold on Tailscale due to them "being open" (as they semi-officially support the development of Headscale), keep in mind, that at the same time some of their clients are closed source and proprietary, and thus totally controlled by them and the official distribution channels, like Apple. Some of the arguments given for this stance are just ridiculous: > If users are comfortable running non-open operating sys…

Went with ZeroTier and Netbird, they're not too bad.

Netbird is very good for my use case. Simple to set up, and just works.
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