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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#201

Post by quadrifoliate »

pembrook wrote: post #184
bborud wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

leaders that ignored the potential to set up homegrown cloud providers, software suites or tech companies Remarkable how it is the politicans who should have been doing this when it doesn't get done, and how everyone is quick to complain if politicians meddle in what the private sector should have been doing. This is a recurring theme in a lot of debates. And I think it has to do with our need to blame someone but ou…

I don't think anybody expected EU politicians to create the software companies When we speak of the failure of EU politicians, it has been in removing the barriers in their own market to even develop successful technology companies given all the highly educated local talent (they have a larger population than the US!). The lack of a single capital market, no single regulatory market, no single language market, hilari…

I have nothing to add other than that you put my argument perfectly, much better than I could. Policy and regulation are the failures.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#202

Post by creamyhorror »

x0x0 wrote: post #102
macspoofing wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that bad. It's well integrated into Sharepoint, Exchange, and Office, and does the job. I've used both Slack and Teams and if you're using MS365, then Teams is absolutely the better option.

The children who write Teams cannot reliably deliver notifications on my mac without me restarting Teams every morning. I've spent a full day attempting to send a webhook in. Teams used to work like slack (a channel admin can create an endpoint; you post to it.) Microsoft deprecated that because it worked. It's now a maze of permissions and it silently fails with no error messages at all. Scrollback regularly fails a…

> I cannot insert images into a channel w/ a customer via drag and drop

Yup, we struggle with this. Seems to have to do with needing to pay for seats in order to have file-sharing allowed (but you can still paste Sharepoint/Onedrive links). Can't share files if there's even a single external person in the chat/channel. Forced us to buy another seat subscription. It's great!

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#203

Post by quadrifoliate »

input_sh wrote: post #167

Worth pointing out: France is not adopting existing open source software, they're building their own software and releasing it under the MIT licence. Most of it (or all of it?) is Django backend + React frontend (using a custom-built UI kit). Home page for the entire suite (in French) with some screenshots: https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/ Code bases are on GitHub and they use English there: https://github.com/suit…

Gotta give them props for all the English. I know that can't have been easy.

Now they just need to change the name so it's not so obviously French, and invite collaboration from the other large EU countries. I wonder how many Dutch or German will think of "La Suite Numerique" as an EU-wide office suite.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#204

Post by frumplestlatz »

gib444 wrote: post #175
quadrifoliate wrote: post #111

This needs to go much, much further before it is even mildly effective. The EU has a population of ~450 million (more than the US) and no significant large technology companies. They are largely dependent on US Big Tech as a population. I love that there is a lot more enthusiasm about OSS adoption within EU software devs, but at a population or government level there doesn't appear to be any coherent strategy to grad…

> and no significant large technology companies I can only assume this is a comparison to the US The world doesn't care about the US yard stick so much. Even less now than before. We in Europe don't care our economy is smaller than the US, that our cars are smaller etc. Bigger is not always better

You say stuff like this, and then simultaneously complain when the US winds up owning the entire technology stack and being the predominate western superpower.

So which is it? Does scale not matter, or are you unhappy with the outcome of ignoring it?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#205

Post by quadrifoliate »

gib444 wrote: post #175
quadrifoliate wrote: post #111

This needs to go much, much further before it is even mildly effective. The EU has a population of ~450 million (more than the US) and no significant large technology companies. They are largely dependent on US Big Tech as a population. I love that there is a lot more enthusiasm about OSS adoption within EU software devs, but at a population or government level there doesn't appear to be any coherent strategy to grad…

> and no significant large technology companies I can only assume this is a comparison to the US The world doesn't care about the US yard stick so much. Even less now than before. We in Europe don't care our economy is smaller than the US, that our cars are smaller etc. Bigger is not always better

Sure, but at least you have homegrown car companies. They make cutting edge cars that are mainstream, and even popular abroad.

You have no equivalents for software. That's why all of your consumer and most of your official stuff runs on US software and cloud platforms, and why headlines like these are...headlines rather than just being normal.

Don't get me wrong -- as a US consumer, I would love for this to change and have EuroCloud or whatever. Hetzner isn't too bad. But it doesn't have the scale and service breadth that Microsoft, Amazon or Google bring.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#206

Post by paulfitz »

input_sh wrote: post #167

Worth pointing out: France is not adopting existing open source software, they're building their own software and releasing it under the MIT licence. Most of it (or all of it?) is Django backend + React frontend (using a custom-built UI kit). Home page for the entire suite (in French) with some screenshots: https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/ Code bases are on GitHub and they use English there: https://github.com/suit…

I work at Grist, the "tableur collaboratif" (collaborative spreadsheet) listed on the La Suite homepage. We're in the interesting situation of being both a NYC-based company, and open source software the French gov has adopted and is helping to develop. Grist is mostly a node backend. So it is a complicated story. The key is having code the gov can review and trust and run it on sovereign infrastructure.

Grist https://www.getgrist.com/

A write-up of how the French gov uses it https://interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu/collection/open-so...

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#207

Post by perching_aix »

tedggh wrote: post #176
pelagicAustral wrote: post #2

Refreshing. No more Teams? Sounds like a dream... Of all the crapware I am forced to work with, Teams really pushes the envelope in every single negative way conceivable. I think I have more love for SharePoint than Teams, and that is a massive concession.

What’s so bad about Teams that makes it so hated? I used it lately and often to work with a customer and I don’t find anything terrible about it, other than some minor usability annoyances like phantom chat notifications once in a while. But overall it does what it’s supposed to do, get on a video call, share your screen and share files over channels. The transcript feature seems to work well too. I’m not amazed by i…

Wrote up a few of my gripes on here a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45933952

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#208

Post by mrits »

input_sh wrote: post #167

Worth pointing out: France is not adopting existing open source software, they're building their own software and releasing it under the MIT licence. Most of it (or all of it?) is Django backend + React frontend (using a custom-built UI kit). Home page for the entire suite (in French) with some screenshots: https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/ Code bases are on GitHub and they use English there: https://github.com/suit…

0% chance of working out

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#209

Post by esel2k »

Working for a large business in Europe- I think MSFT and Google co know exactly about the threat to their business.

Thats why the aggressively integrate every AI tool where they can - like copilot to make large companies and government stick to their solutions. I wish government will find am even better way to embed LLM to their tools…

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#210

Post by mrits »

shevy-java wrote: post #192

Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government, and the current US government will remain hostile as long as it is in charge; but even afterwards it is quite logical to assume that any follow-up government will prioritize US…

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