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Outlawed by Amazon DRM

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Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#201

Post by e40 »

techsupporter wrote: post #56

Tangentially related, I am getting very, very tired of "customer service" departments using phrases like: "While we are unable to provide detailed information on how we link related accounts, please know that we have reviewed your account on the basis of the information provided and regret to inform you that it will not be reopened." This happens more frequently: Google says this all the time, based on posts here; Am…

Agreed. When the first DVD burners came out HP had an exclusive period for sales of them. I really wanted one, so I ordered it online and got an email a few minutes later saying my order had been canceled. I called and ask why. The usual "we can't tell you, sorry" answer. I wouldn't let go. I asked for a manager and then spent a hour on the phone--I just wouldn't hang up--telling her I had made thousands of transactions online over the last 10 years with that credit card and this was the first problem. I hammered her for details and she never gave me one, but she did do something else: she decided to verify me via other means (I have no idea what those were) by asking me a series of questions. After which she took my order manually and I got the device I wanted.

Normally, I would have voted with my pocket book, but in this case they had the sole source of the item (for a time). I also wanted to cost them a huge amount of time for their error.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#202

Post by powertower »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #60

So even if we assume that Amazon was correct and that this account was closed because it was linked to another account that was closed because of 'abuse'. I don't understand how that would justify or require revoking access to stuff that was already bought/licensed? You could simply deny the offending user access to buying new stuff instead.

The "abuse" was probably related to stripping DRM off the titles, and uploading them for anyone to download free-of-charge. Then that would make sense.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#204

Post by gioele »

dhimes wrote: post #125
gioele wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > I treat all E-books purchased with DRM as rentals. >Good for you. Nobody else outside of HN does. Lawyers and librarians also do. There are big discussions in those circles about the meaning of the verbs "to buy" and "to possess" as used by Amazon, Apple and other big DRM "retailers". It is not only about DRM. Libraries are realising that paying for access to a website of a publishing house is not exactly like pa…

I had never heard of "dark archives." Is this what you mean? (from: http://www.osti.gov/ostiblog/dark-archives ) So, what is a dark archive? It is, simply put, an archive of information that is not used for public access. Most often it serves as a failsafe copy of a light archive, i.e. a publicly available version of the information, for use in disaster recovery operations. Dark archives need not be a fully operation…

A dark archive is an archive that is not meant to be publicly accessible. As you said it is used to store information that must survive in case of disaster.

But what is a disaster for a library? Yesterday it was a fire, today is a publisher going bankrupt and dismissing its online (paywalled) archive. A dark archive pays the fee to access various online resources and store them indefinitely, but without letting anyone access that information (well, except the archive admins). The legality of this? Dubious. The usefulness of this? High.

As Portico.com puts it, «We chose to create a “dark” archive to focus our efforts on securing and preserving large volumes of content important to libraries and their users; however, it is not exclusively dark. Participating libraries experience the archive as a “light” or accessible archive in two ways: auditing the archive to ensure we are prepared to support eventual use and accessing of content that has been made available as the result of a “trigger event” or post-cancellation access claim. Unlike many ongoing preservation initiatives, Portico participants and their users experience direct customer support, should they ever need it.»

But the devil is in the details. Who pays the fee for these dark archives? Do we trust them? Who is auditing what is happening behind the doors of the dark archives? Luckily there are FLOSS systems like LOCKSS and CLOCKSS that allow you to create your own dark archive.

Few links:

* http://news.jstor.org/news/2004.12/repositories.html

* http://hul.harvard.edu/publications/ln1356/03.html

* http://www.clockss.org/clockss/FAQ

* http://www.clockss.org/clockss/How_CLOCKSS_Works

* http://www.portico.org/digital-preservation/the-archive-cont...

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#205

Post by gambiting »

vijayr wrote: post #182
mdasen wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Kindle users probably did give explicit permission (for some definition of explicit permission). I'm sure there's a clause in the ToS that allows Amazon to delete content that you've purchased. I'm not the type to sound the drum saying that piracy isn't theft, but here it seems like it's trying to go both ways. It's property if you "steal" it and it isn't property if you've bought it. Part of the…

The problem is that Kindle users probably did give explicit permission (for some definition of explicit permission). This is probably the case. Amazon would've covered their bases strongly. What is super annoying is this - there are many many books, whose kindle editions cost more than their paperbacks. Imagine paying 13$ for a ebook (the same book in paperback costs 10$) and then losing that due to some arbitrary "r…

And there are many many books which are a lot cheaper on Kindle. I buy my programming and technical books almost exclusively on Kindle,since the difference is usually half the price of paperbacks.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#206

Post by SEMW »

> How will she ever find the means to get her books back? By suing a large corporation half-way round the earth?

IANAL. But for anyone in a similar situation, consumer protection law is usually better than you think. Don't assume you can't sue, or have to sue in another country, just because the contract says you do. Consumer protection laws can trump contracts!

In particular, for anyone in EU or EFTA at least (i.e. part of the Brussels regime for determining jurisdiction to sue, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_Regime ), who is acting as a consumer, you can sue in your own country: "A consumer may bring proceedings against the other party to a contract either in the courts... in which that party is domiciled or in the courts... in which he is himself domiciled."

If Amazon want to do business in a country, they have to abide by the consumer laws of that country.

I am not a lawyer. Get yourself a lawyer and know your rights!

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#207

Post by imgabe »

MattBearman wrote: post #81

I know it's not the best attitude, but if this ever happened to me I would simply pirate all the books I'd purchased from amazon, side load them onto my kindle and keep reading guilt free. A part of me would like to dump amazon due to stories like this, but at the end of the day the whole set up is just too convenient (I can find, 'buy', and start reading a book in less than a minute directly from my kindle) The wors…

I'm in the same boat. My plan is to continue using Amazon, but remove the DRM from everything I buy and keep a backup copy.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#208

Post by kabdib »

I have a physical library of about 5K books. Should he want to, my son will be able to read those books.

The DRM'd books are a different story. I still want my son to be able to read them, but I have no assurance that the ebooks will be available to him fifteen years from now.

So I yank the DRM from all of my Amazon purchases. These I put on backups. I do not share them.

I would like to see legislation about the ownership of digital content, requiring that purchased content be accessible /at all times/ -- held in escrow, if necessary. Clearly defining a purchase is probably part of this.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#209

Post by dangrossman »

stuaxo wrote: post #149
techsupporter wrote: post #56

Tangentially related, I am getting very, very tired of "customer service" departments using phrases like: "While we are unable to provide detailed information on how we link related accounts, please know that we have reviewed your account on the basis of the information provided and regret to inform you that it will not be reopened." This happens more frequently: Google says this all the time, based on posts here; Am…

Wow, wish my bank could tell me the reasoning for credit decisions !

Any time anyone makes a credit decision, you receive a notice in the mail informing you of this fact, and that you have the right to a free copy of the credit report they pulled on you.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#210

Post by skywalk »

bruceboughton wrote: post #78
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #64

Its getting to the point where I am seriously considering closing my Amazon account. I just don't like the way it does business any more. Can anyone recommend a good online bookseller in the UK? Is Waterstones any good? The Guardian is running a story [1] today about how Amazon forces publishers to cover the cost of 20% VAT (sales tax) on ebook sales, even though it only pays 3% to the Luxembourg government (where it…

Every week there is a story in the UK press about how company A is not paying tax in the UK. This is not unique to Amazon. Vodafone, Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Apple, ...

Most are setup to use a double irish scheme, and usually throw in the dutch sandwich: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_sandwich
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