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Android’s desktop interface leaks

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Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#201

Post by palata »

ece wrote: post #133
palata wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Convincing a user to give their password will always be an issue, that's fundamental. But because phishing exists does not mean that security does not matter. Without security, there is no need to phish, because the system does not protect anything. Once you have a good security, then the best attack is phishing because it's easier to trick the human than the system. This mea…

This level of security exists on open as well as closed platforms, the problem is the closed platforms not allowing you to do things that aren't giving your password away (like installing fdroid or using beeper easily). I just have a hard time believing this is superior in any way.

I think you're confused.

I you run GrapheneOS, it is an open source platform built on top of AOSP (the Android Open Source Project). Part of the security model is that you don't run as root. I am an advanced user and I don't want to run as root on my phone, I am happy with GrapheneOS as it is distributed.

Now if you want to be root, you can install an OS that allows you to be root. Just like I unlocked my bootloader, installed GrapheneOS and relocked my bootloader, you can do that and install whatever you please. I will keep using GrapheneOS because that is the most secure OS I can find for my phone.

The problem, IMO, is not that "some OS are opinionated and don't give you root access while other OSes do give you root access". The problem is that on many phones, you are not free to install the goddam OS you want (e.g. because you can't unlock or relock the bootloader).

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#203

Post by zb3 »

supernes wrote: post #144
augusteo wrote: post #78

The Chrome Extensions support is the interesting part here. That's often the dealbreaker for using mobile devices as computer replacements. Google's had this weird situation where Android and ChromeOS overlap more every year. At some point maintaining two operating systems with converging feature sets seems wasteful. My guess: ChromeOS probably survives for the education market where manageability matters more than c…

Any extensions that do something really "interesting" will be disallowed, cf. Manifest V3.

I'm running AdGuard in Chromium right now. I don't see any ads, even on YouTube. May I ask what did you mean?

Not that I don't think MV3 is limited, but.. we're comparing this against MV2, right? It was already missing basic functionality like full filtering of http responses, I remember a bug about not seeing POST bodies being open for 10+ years..

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#204

Post by yencabulator »

Zak wrote: post #76
dfajgljsldkjag wrote: post #69

This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore. The browser extensions are the most important part because that is what makes a computer useful. I am glad to see they are thinking about this.

Android Chrome not having extensions is just a build option toggle. It doesn't have extensions because Google doesn't want it to, not for technical reasons.

It'd be really weird if extensions got enabled/disabled based on whether the USB cable is plugged into a monitor or not.

I expect the eventual production version of this will have extensions if and only if the normal Android Chrome has extensions at that time.

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#205

Post by palata »

orev wrote: post #58
palata wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, but my PC runs on Linux so I don't feel threatened. I feel like at some point normies may end up just using iPadOS or Android as a "convergent" device: a tablet/phone that they can plug into a docking station and use as a computer. I am sort of hoping that it will work with something like GrapheneOS, so that I will be able to benefit from it on my phone.

> my PC runs on Linux so I don't feel threatened. Well, you should feel threatened. Where do you think the push towards TPM and secure boot is heading? Microsoft is insanely envious of how Apple and Google locked down their platforms and have total control over app stores, and that’s what Microsoft wants too. It’s a huge revenue stream they’re leaving on the table. Now that there’s precedent on mobile, they’ll have n…

Right, I guess we agree but I was not clear.

In general, I don't care so much if Windows or macOS become as locked as Android or iOS, as long as I can install Linux on my hardware.

My point is that many people seem to complain because they want to be root on the Google-certified Android. I disagree with that: Google makes an OS where you cannot be root. If you want an OS where you can be root, you should be able to install another OS on the hardware you bought. Because you should own that hardware. But you don't own Google.

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#206

Post by jeroenhd »

joe_mamba wrote: post #99
okokwhatever wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand how much are 50 bucks in a third world country? I mean, Android phone is not the cheapest solution for the poor (obviously) but it helps a lot having this kind of features for a family.

>Do you understand how much are 50 bucks in a third world country? Yes I do, no need to patronize us with that since even in 3rd world countries people have access to old computers from ewaste imports at a reasonable price, we don't all live in straw mudhuts wearing loincloths swinging from branch to branch. Now tell me which 50 euro phone ships with display output and is readily available. AFAIK Oneplus 7T I had is…

If you can't find an affordable phone with DP-Alt mode, you can get it working by getting clever.

Any Android phone with a USB port can have a dock attached with ethernet, a keyboard, and a mouse. Connect a Chromecast to any HDMI display. Cast to that display.

Then install 1) a taskbar app (there are dozens on Google Play), 2) enable freeform windows in the device and 3) cast your phone to your Chromecast.

Alternatively, even the shitty phones with just USB 2 dongles can enable their desktop mode by using DisplayLink; no DP-Alt mode necessary. Worse on the battery, but works over USB micro if need be.

The biggest hurdle is software support. For getting the display to work, there are plenty of workarounds possible.

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#207

Post by zb3 »

The good part about this is they've invested in bringing extensions support to Chrome.. of course only those "desktop" builds, but the code is there and for now you can use this on normal Android - if you compile it for yourself or download the Chromium APK.

I wonder whether they'll keep pretending that extensions are not supported on Android, perhaps even intentionally breaking support on mobile.. or maybe they'll stop this madness and just support extensions officially..

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#208

Post by duffyjp »

ashleyn wrote: post #72
dfajgljsldkjag wrote: post #69

This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore. The browser extensions are the most important part because that is what makes a computer useful. I am glad to see they are thinking about this.

How will this succeed where the Motorola Atrix failed way back in 2011? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/03/the-motorola-atrix-4...

My Moto Edge 2024 has "Ready For" which is basically this still today. I plug in the USB-C cable normally connected to my work MacBook and I instantly get a full desktop experience; mouse, keyboard and sound included.

It's how I play Minecraft with my kids when they get the itch. Sometimes if I know I'm only gonna be zoning out on Youtube at night I'll use to to save a few watts too.

It can do 1440p at 120hz, all on a really affordable phone. It's nice.

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#209

Post by izacus »

joe_mamba wrote: post #140
izacus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be specific which countries are you talking about? Because you seem to be in a word fight with very vague arguments and with someone else with very vague arguments and it's not even clear you're talking about same things. So can you be clear on: - Which counties you're talking about? - Why are those countries important to think about in this case? - Why doesn't this feature help people from regions that can a…

>- Which counties you're talking about? Pick any you like, Income/GDP is more important metric rather than which specific country. >- Why are those countries important to think about in this case? Why are you asking me? Ask the people who brought up third world countries as the target user base for phones with display output. I'm the one not agreeing with this point since it's stupid. >- Why doesn't this feature help…

I'm asking you because you're part of the fight and are talking about costs without providing the context.

So, which one did you pick to talk about to make a counterpoint?

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#210

Post by jeroenhd »

joe_mamba wrote: post #84
dfajgljsldkjag wrote: post #69

This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore. The browser extensions are the most important part because that is what makes a computer useful. I am glad to see they are thinking about this.

>This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore. Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices. But 50 Euros on the used market got me a retired corporate HP/Dell laptop with 1080p screen, intel 8th gen i5 quad core, 8GB RAM and 256GB NVME on which…

Resell the 8GB of RAM and buy an even better phone then? That's 150 euros of value right there.

Then use the money on a reputable second hand store to buy a used S20 5G 128GB for 150 euros, or a S22 128GB for 145, maybe an S21 Ultra 5G 256GB for 139, and you've got yourself a valiant workstation already (Samsung DeX works great out of the box, no need to wait for Google here). I can also find an S20+ 5G 128GB for 75 euros with display damage (but that doesn't matter when you hook it up to a monitor).

On another website I can find an S20+ 5G with cracks in the edges of the touch screen for 50 euros. That's 12GiB of RAM, 128GiB of storage, a 3200x1440p@120Hz screen and 5G connectivity built in. You're gonna need a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard (that's like what, 5 euros?) to hook it up to the TV but then you're good.

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