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I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

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Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#201

Post by Teever »

sotix wrote: post #198
jermaustin1 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who has been told I'm "morbidly obese" for decades now, I will say that doctors at almost every level look at your chart not you. I've been told time and time again that until I get my weight under control, my health will suffer. I'm 5'8" and weigh on average 210lbs. My BMI isn't even morbidly obese, it is 31, which is just "regular" obese, but on top of that, a DEXA scan shows that I am actually only 25%…

I'd consider 5'8 and 210lbs morbidly obese. An average male at 5'8 should generally weigh about 150lbs and no more than 164lbs.

Or that guy could be a burly bricklacker / concerete worker who can casually carry hundreds of pounds of weight all day every day in brutal conditions.

It's really hard to tell with the data provided.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#202

Post by port11 »

wawayanda wrote: post #16

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

You used a predictive/statistical proximity chatbot on a single point-in-time snapshot of her blood, and you’re pissed that the result wasn’t useful? I think any decent GP would push back, want to see trends in the data, or at least look at the broader context.

I mean, at some point we have to admit that LLMs aren’t designed for correctness but utility.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#203

Post by port11 »

cthalupa wrote: post #133

I'll preface this with I generally trust doctors. I think on the whole they are well positioned to provide massive benefit to their patients. I will also preface this with saying I do not think any LLM is better than the average doctor and that you are far better served going to your doctor than asking ChatGPT what your health is like on any factor. But I'll also say that the quality of doctors varies massively, and…

I interviewed for Ada, whose ML diagnostic tool had shown itself more accurate at diagnosis than a panel of doctors. It was specifically trained on case data, IIRC, and doctors were paid to help improve the results.

I wonder what it’s like now. Any time I use it for a diagnosis I get outlandish results, and then I’ll head to my GP and turns out it was something rather simple.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#204

Post by port11 »

smcl wrote: post #97
cameldrv wrote: post #69

I dunno, if the Apple Watch said he had a vo2max of 30, that probably means he can’t run a mile in less than 12 minutes or so. He’s probably not at all healthy…

Apple Watch is pretty poor at estimating VO2 max and it seems to be more correlated with how often you record exercises with said watch than with your actual health. For example I watched mine climb slowly as I prepared for my football season (beyond 50), then after the season started I I ended up playing and training just as frequently but without wearing the watch. After a few weeks (of me training and playing hard…

I really don’t know whether to trust that specific measurement. When I was a very active runner and doing intervals to improve per-km time, my VO2max went from 38 to 42. I decided to do a professional VO2max test and got a 46.

Now, 2 years later, I don’t run due to injury and a kid, and it’s resting at 34. For reference, when I went to the gym almost everyday and ran once or twice a week, the value was 32.

I don’t get much utility out of it, even looking at the trends. Not sure what Apple is doing behind the scenes to get the score.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#205

Post by jermaustin1 »

sotix wrote: post #198
jermaustin1 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who has been told I'm "morbidly obese" for decades now, I will say that doctors at almost every level look at your chart not you. I've been told time and time again that until I get my weight under control, my health will suffer. I'm 5'8" and weigh on average 210lbs. My BMI isn't even morbidly obese, it is 31, which is just "regular" obese, but on top of that, a DEXA scan shows that I am actually only 25%…

I'd consider 5'8 and 210lbs morbidly obese. An average male at 5'8 should generally weigh about 150lbs and no more than 164lbs.

If I got rid of all of my fat and bones, I'd still weigh more than 150lbs. I have the most muscular 150lbs man inside of me.

Ideal body fat percentage is 18-24% - I'm at 25% (or was in November - might be +/- 2% since then - gained a few pounds weight, but not waist size).

So I would say I'm not morbidly obese or even regular obese based on the percentage of my body that is muscle vs fat.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#206

Post by jermaustin1 »

joshhart wrote: post #188
jermaustin1 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who has been told I'm "morbidly obese" for decades now, I will say that doctors at almost every level look at your chart not you. I've been told time and time again that until I get my weight under control, my health will suffer. I'm 5'8" and weigh on average 210lbs. My BMI isn't even morbidly obese, it is 31, which is just "regular" obese, but on top of that, a DEXA scan shows that I am actually only 25%…

Huh. The standard in your case is to measure waist circumference if BMI is high. Did no doctor do that? As long as you are below 40” or 37” if Asian you are considered good to go.

None ever did.

On top of that, I'm not sure if that is a real indication of anything, either.

The reason to do that is to get an idea of your abdominal fat (which is the more dangerous place for fat to store), but there are two types of abdominal fat, one is dangerous (visceral fat) and one is completely benign (subcutaneous fat). And a measurement around your waist won't tell you which you have.

I personally have almost all of my fat subcutaneous, with only 1lb of visceral fat (which is right in the perfect range).

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#207

Post by jermaustin1 »

Teever wrote: post #201
sotix wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd consider 5'8 and 210lbs morbidly obese. An average male at 5'8 should generally weigh about 150lbs and no more than 164lbs.

Or that guy could be a burly bricklacker / concerete worker who can casually carry hundreds of pounds of weight all day every day in brutal conditions. It's really hard to tell with the data provided.

burly - maybe, but I haven't done any hard labor most of my life. I ran track as a kid, and kept my high metabolism - (RMR: 2460kcal, TDEE: 3380kcal); well lost it when my thyroid failed, but medicated myself back to it. I eat what I want, but its a very high lean-meat diet (lots of chicken breast and turkey because my wife likes them), but I don't limit my carb intake either, as I mostly burn sugar for energy (according to my Respiratory Exchange Ratio).

Somehow my body is just amazing at working without any help from me. I don't even exercise much. Maybe a few pushups a day, up and down my stairs at my house a couple dozen times a day, and probably 5-10k steps a day max.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#208

Post by coldtea »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #187
coldtea wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When humans talk, they use generalizations (and don't need to annouce them). Here it means that most doctors don't care about that. Follow that rule next time you read such a statement in a context that's not formal math.

> When humans talk, they use generalizations All humans? Sorry :)

Well, when humans talk, they use generalizations, which applies recursively to this statement :)

Though, on second thought: yes, all humans, and not merely as a generalization. 100% of humans do it.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#209

Post by mdtancsa »

akshivb wrote: post #174
cameldrv wrote: post #69

I dunno, if the Apple Watch said he had a vo2max of 30, that probably means he can’t run a mile in less than 12 minutes or so. He’s probably not at all healthy…

I had a "below average" VO2 max score based on my Apple Watch measurements. It was ~40 mL/kg/min, in the span of about a month it jumped up to 53 mL/kg/min, which is "high" for my age group. So what happened? I started running instead of cycling as my primary form of cardio. My hypothesis is that the apple watch estimates higher if you are running rather than pedaling. I definitely don't think my cardio vascular went…

After a long injury, I got back to slowly running on the treadmill/bike/elliptical at the gym. IIRC, my garmin qualified its VO2Max results by saying I needed to run out side for some period of time to get a more accurate measurement. I guess there is something about the running metrics it collects that has a smaller error range.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#210

Post by theshrike79 »

eur0pa wrote: post #164
theshrike79 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT will actually look at your whole medical history, listen to you, think and check multiple different options before making a decision. You can spend hours chatting with it back and forth. An average human doctor has maybe 15 minutes allotted to getting to know you, analyse and determine a course of action. Which is usually "take some ibuprofen and let's see if it goes away". Then you go again in two weeks with…

A LLM neither "listens" nor "thinks"

For the sake of fluid writing, I did use anthropomorphic verbs.

What would you prefer instead?

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