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Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

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Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#201

Post by tfvlrue »

Jedd wrote: post #194
drzaiusx11 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow old here, I had several 56k baud modems but even my USR (the best of the bunch) never got more than half way to 56k throughput. Took forever to download shit over BBS...

> several 56k baud modems These were almost definitely 8k baud.

In case anyone else is curious, since this is something I was always confused about until I looked it up just now:

"Baud rate" refers to the symbol rate, that is the number of pulses of the analog signal per second. A signal that has two voltage states can convey two bits of information per symbol.

"Bit rate" refers to the amount of digital data conveyed. If there are two states per symbol, then the baud rate and bit rate are equivalent. 56K modems used 7 bits per symbol, so the bit rate was 7x the baud rate.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#202

Post by AceJohnny2 »

MBCook wrote: post #182
NewJazz wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rubber ducky demands that you think about your own questions, rather than taking a mental back seat as you get pummeled with information that may or may not be relevant.

They also don’t waste electricity, water, drive up the prices of critical computer components, or DDOS websites to steal their content.

Not to defend the extravagant power use of the AI datacenters, but I invite you to look up the ecological footprint of a human being.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#203

Post by jacquesm »

drzaiusx11 wrote: post #190
jacquesm wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still done today in the Arducopter community over similar radio links.

I haven't heard much about the ArduCopter (and ArduPilot) projects for a decade, are those projects still at it? I used to run a quadroter I made myself a while back until I crashed it in a tree and decided to find cheaper hobbies...

They're alive and well and producing some pretty impressive software.

Crashing your drone is a learning experience ;)

Remote NSH over Mavlink is interesting, your drone is flying and you are talking to the controller in real time. Just don't type 'reboot'!

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#204

Post by brendangregg »

Funny to see this fixed in 2023 and the side effects. Back in 2004, before I focused on performance, I did some security work including inter-keystroke latency analysis of captured SSH sessions to estimate the commands typed:

https://www.brendangregg.com/sshanalysis.html

The 2023 patch should finally fix that 2004 issue.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#205

Post by eieio »

flumpcakes wrote: post #114

I don't see how Claude helped the debugging at all. It seemed like the author knew what to do and it was more telling Claude to think about that. I've used Claude a bit and it never speaks to me like that either, "Holy Cow!" etc. It sounds more annoying than interacting with real people. Perhaps AIs are good at sensing personalities from input text and doesn't act this way with my terse prompts..

Claude is much faster at extracting fields from a pcap and processing them with awk than I am!

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#206

Post by eieio »

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #197

Or you could use anycasting to terminate SSH sessions on the moral equivalent of one of a number of geography based reverse proxies and then forward the packet over an internal network to the app server over a link tuned for low latency. The big guys already do something similar with HTTP over TLS for DDoS protection and to limit end to end latency on TLS. Granted... it would increase the cost (since you're adding re…

> Or you could use anycasting to terminate SSH sessions on the moral equivalent of one of a number of geography based reverse proxies and then forward the packet over an internal network to the app server over a link tuned for low latency.

I've been thinking about some stuff like this! Not being able to put my game behind Cloudflare[1] is a bummer. Substantial architectural overhead though.

> The idea of letting Claude loose on my crypto[graphy] implementation is about the most frightening thing I've heard of in a while [though libnss is so craptastic, I can't see how it would hurt in that case.]

I hear you, but FWIW the patch I was reverting was trivial (and it's also in the go crypto library, which is pretty easy to read). It's a couple-of-line change[2], and Claude did almost exactly what I would have done (I was tired and would have forgotten to shrink the handshake payload).

[1] This isn't strictly true, Cloudflare spectrum exists, but its pricing is an insane $1/GB last I checked.

[2] https://cs.opensource.google/go/x/crypto/+/833695f0a57b30373...

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#207

Post by NewJazz »

grimgrin wrote: post #184
NewJazz wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rubber ducky demands that you think about your own questions, rather than taking a mental back seat as you get pummeled with information that may or may not be relevant.

I'm not saying you should do this, but you can do this: https://gist.github.com/shmup/100a7529724cedfcda1276a65664dc...

Lol not bad

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#208

Post by robflynn »

quesera wrote: post #195
gerdesj wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"where we might as well save the bandwidth" I come from a world (yesteryear) where a computer had 1KB of RAM (ZX80). I've used links with modems rocking 1200 bps (1200 bits per second). I recall US Robotics modems getting to speeds of 56K - well that was mostly a fib worse than MS doing QA these days. Ooh I could chat with some bloke from Novell on Compuserve. In 1994ish I was asked to look into this fancy new world…

> I've used links with modems rocking 1200 bps Yo, 300 baud, checking in. Do I hear 110? +++ATH0

Ah, the good old days. I remember dialing up local BBSes with QMODEM.

AT&C1&D2S36=7DT*70,,,5551212

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#209

Post by mardifoufs »

drzaiusx11 wrote: post #190
jacquesm wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still done today in the Arducopter community over similar radio links.

I haven't heard much about the ArduCopter (and ArduPilot) projects for a decade, are those projects still at it? I used to run a quadroter I made myself a while back until I crashed it in a tree and decided to find cheaper hobbies...

Well at least crashing drones into trees has never been cheaper hahaha. So it's super easy to get into nowadays, especially if it's just to play around with flight systems instead of going for pure performance.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#210

Post by dcdc123 »

flumpcakes wrote: post #114

I don't see how Claude helped the debugging at all. It seemed like the author knew what to do and it was more telling Claude to think about that. I've used Claude a bit and it never speaks to me like that either, "Holy Cow!" etc. It sounds more annoying than interacting with real people. Perhaps AIs are good at sensing personalities from input text and doesn't act this way with my terse prompts..

You’re absolutely right!
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