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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#201

Post by mlinhares »

pixl97 wrote: post #161
sitharus wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't most people already have a plug in their garage? All mine certainly have. There's no need to get full EVSE for most people, a 2.4kW outlet as found almost everywhere outside North America will easily handle daily driving needs for anyone who's not in a travelling job. Also if everyone in your neighbourhood turning on a space heater strains the grid you have bigger problems. Utilities have plenty of ways to solv…

>Also if everyone in your neighbourhood turning on a space heater strains the grid you have bigger problems. Welcome to Texas. And with Texas a 200 mile+ driving day is just more common than people from smaller places experience.

People can't possibly be driving 200 miles a day, that can't be real.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#202

Post by auggierose »

appplication wrote: post #10
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

People are buying £60000 BYD cars left and right. That's quite an expensive car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#203

Post by marcus_holmes »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

Every time an EV driver charges their car at home, a gas station loses a customer.

Eventually this compounds and gas stations start closing.

That accelerates the switch to EVs because gas becomes hard to find. Which accelerates gas station closures, and so on.

The point at which it becomes impractical to drive a gas-fuelled car is approaching. It will hit different countries at different times, but it's there. 10 years, 30 years, whatever, but it's coming.

Long before that point, a hybrid is just an EV that has to carry around a chunk of useless engine that is hard to fuel.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#204

Post by fy20 »

protocolture wrote: post #199
msy wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parity? Their EVs are streets ahead, doubly so for the price.

I dont drive one of their EV's, but the 20+ year veteran Diesel Engineer who took my DPF filter complaint escalation does and thats really all I need to know. After I run my current vehicle into the ground, that will probably be next.

Similar story here. I know a guy who does chip tuning as his career. He bought a Tesla last year, and he's more than happy with it.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#205

Post by bruce511 »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

>> I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid

Weight, space and reliability.

Dragging that generator (and fuel) around costs weight and space, reducing range. Exhaust, fuel tank, radiator- all the support systems the ICE motor needs. Which leaves less space for batteries, which reduces range.

Plus, the maintenance burden is still there. All those ICE parts still need all the maintainence etc that full ICE needs. One of the joys of EV is that maintainence is sooo much simpler.

So yes, hybrid is much more efficient than gas only, but a poor cousin of full EV.

By contrast full EV has range limitations. And yes distances in Europe are much shorter than the US. No that's less of an issue there. But even there we're seeing range go up, and charging come down.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#206

Post by pear01 »

melenaboija wrote: post #166
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Yes, not to mention the fact that Chinese EVs can't be sold here... protectionism for weak American companies that can't compete globally. We've gone from an automotive superpower and the land of Henry Ford to the government propping up automakers and depriving Americans of free choice. If Chinese cars would actually be allowed to sold here they would sell like Toyota Camrys.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#207

Post by vlovich123 »

pixl97 wrote: post #153
jacquesm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The (potential, no experience) quality issues are to me far outweighed by the enabling of yet another country to become a superpower which will then sooner or later result in yet another confrontation. Russia should have taught at least Europe that this sort of trade can only backfire in the longer term. Yes, I realize, China is the world's factory now, but there is no reason that can not change. I'm trying really ha…

In the US for example, most of the US brands are already made in China. They will copy the tooling and put a different brand name on it and you'll have a tool of the same quality for way less cost. Simply put China is an unrecognized superpower at this point with the investments they've already made. The amount of infrastructure they've built in a decade dwarfs what the West has done in decades.

Sorry, the country with nukes, nuclear submarines, a massive navy and a permanent member on the UN Security Council isn’t recognized as a superpower? By whom?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#208

Post by sheepybloke »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

My uncle works in the industry and was getting a new car recently. His two options were all electric or all ICE, because from his experience, EHEVs have the problems of both ICE and BEV vehicles.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#209

Post by mpyne »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

> I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid.

Being able to shed the ICE bits from the car's powertrain eliminates multiple entire classes of maintenance burden. With hybrid and EREV you get the problems of both types of powerplant and drivetrain, and even though ICE has evolved to be fairly reliable, it's still a very complicated assembly and basic wear-and-tear still is still a challenge.

There will probably be parts of the country where hybrid or EREV make sense for some period of time due to the distances involved and the incredible energy density of gasoline, but a lot of the driving that happens day to day can already be handled with pure EVs as long as you have a 120V plug accessible to your car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#210

Post by bruce511 »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #157
dmix wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue will always be price. Whether that's purchase price, resale, or maintenance. Even the budget brand cars from South Korea and Ford can figure out the basics of interior/exterior design where customers are happy. That mostly just leaves the price and it's only gone up. Car prices have increased well above the rate of inflation over the last decade and even used cars are more expensive than ever. Average…

> The main issue will always be price. You're right. There isn't a single legacy auto manufacturer in the US (Ford, GM, Stellantis) that can profitably sell an EV. Yet they make them anyway, and sell them for huge losses ($billions per year) because they have to meet mandates.

For foreign (read Chinese) cars a big piece of the price charged to US customers is the tarrifs (taxes) which US customers pay.

Elsewhere in the world EV prices are steadily coming down. They're not as low as ICE yet, and maybe never will be, but a nice entry level ICE car here is circa $15k, and a nice EV entry level is circa 25k.

Factor in fuel and maintenance costs and the real price is getting very close....

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