Stoics always think they are above caring about stupid shit, but that's the fun of life. The last sentence of Nietzsche's quote is completely right.
Indifference is a power (2015)
201–210 of 241 posts
Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is one of those rare cases where I believe young men would benefit from reading more Nietzsche. "Do you want to live 'according to nature'? O you noble Stoics, what a verbal swindle! Imagine a being like nature - extravagant without limit, indifferent without limit, without purposes and consideration, without pity and justice, simultaneously fruitful, desolate, and unknown - imagine this indifference itself as a…
This is quoted (and addressed) near the beginning of the article (paragraphs 3 to 6), for what it's worth.
Well that's what I get for commenting before reading the article. A nasty habit.
Well now that I've read that part of the article, I can say that it's a pretty lame retort.
Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
The group of traits often described by "toxic masculinity" are overwhelmingly displayed only by males, so... it makes sense? If you aren't someone who displays that specific bundle of traits/behaviors, I would suggest being stoic about it and not taking the term personally.
Crime is also overwhelmingly associated with race. Intelligence quotient as well. We don’t characterize race by statistical facts because we would offend the outliers. I think it’s important to follow etiquette in common language rather then label entire minorities or groups based off of statistics.
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Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is one of those rare cases where I believe young men would benefit from reading more Nietzsche. "Do you want to live 'according to nature'? O you noble Stoics, what a verbal swindle! Imagine a being like nature - extravagant without limit, indifferent without limit, without purposes and consideration, without pity and justice, simultaneously fruitful, desolate, and unknown - imagine this indifference itself as a…
This just shows that Nietzsche did not understand stoicism on any deep level
Nietzsche never cared about understanding of anything, he had an agenda, a mission to fulfill. His arguments are always shallow and shifty - the quote provided by throw4847285 is a good illustration of it.
With that said, my words aren't an endorsement of Stoicism, nor am I against it - I know little about it because I don't think it addresses my specific needs.
Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Proper Stoicism is not about dodging your emotions, it's very much about dodging the adverse behavioral effects of your emotions. I’m not disagreeing with this. I understand classic stoicism, but I’ve also seen the effects of modern pseudo-stoicism as pushed by influencers and social media. Focusing on stoicism and trying to dodge the effects of your emotions is a reasonable strategy for someone who is truly stuck…
ISTM that improving one's emotional self-regulation is an excellent first-line response to being in what seems to be a toxic job. It may be that leaving that job and applying for another is still the right thing to do, all things considered, but we cannot know for sure unless we are in that situation ourselves and can de-stress enough to do a proper evaluation of it.
I agree that improving emotional regulation is a first step to building up the energy to change a situation.
My issue with modern internet style pseudo-stoicism is that it's fixated on becoming indifferent (the title of this article, even) and breeds a sort of learned helplessness. The article's sub-heading is about prisoners and warriors, but using techniques optimized for being a prisoner or stuck in a war isn't quite right for someone navigating a toxic relationship or toxic job where you're not actually entirely helpless.
Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Proper Stoicism is not about dodging your emotions, it's very much about dodging the adverse behavioral effects of your emotions. You're encouraged to work through your emotions proactively and in depth (the Stoics encouraged askesis which literally means 'training' or 'exercise') so that they don't adversely affect you and others down the road. Of course, you should also learn how to counter these effects in the mom…
It's learning to not burden yourself with things you cannot control.
When applied indiscriminately as a fix-all philosophy, it treats everything as something you cannot control.
That's the problem.
Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think of the "tough warrior philosopher" messaging as the installation medium for this hack. All hacks need an attractive bait/installer. The average young person who discovers stoicism via articles like this or via an influencer isn’t going to do a deep dive into classic literature as the next step. They’re going to seek out more influencer slop that delivers more of what drew them to it: The prisoner/warrior ba…
The average young person probably does nothing at all. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. Some percentage of people will come to Stoicism via an influencer and continue to dig.
> Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
But it's not a choice between good or perfect. The internet style stoicism becomes a sort of learned helplessness for people who skim articles and think it means you should assume everything is out of your control and instead focus on ignoring your emotions.
Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#208A lot of comments here use this metaphor of emotions as things that flow from a source, and need to be expressed or they will accumulate and explode. I think this can be traced to pop-psychology bullshit, and there isn't any neuroscientific basis backing it up. It seems like wishful thinking by people who like expressing their emotions to others and want to justify their spend on therapists, or their occasional emoti…
“Ignoring” is not the same as “noticing”; the difference is right there in the words!
You are right that it is undesirable to be a slave to one's emotions, to keep having emotional outbursts or “expressing” all emotions impulsively. But at the other extreme if you try to address this by building a habit of dissociation and “ignoring” your feelings (as you propose), that is also not good, and not how Stoicism or meditation address it. (To use an analogy: it would be bad for a parent to be a slave to their children, or for a charioteer to be led by their horses instead of controlling them. But ignoring them isn't great either!)
Stoicism addresses this preemptively, building a practice of having a proportionate response to things outside our control. Meditation also addresses this by, as you said, noticing emotions when they arise, recognizing them for what they are (creating some distance), and letting them pass instead of indulging them. Ignoring your emotions or letting them burst out are both different from letting them pass/seeing them through.
Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Crime is also overwhelmingly associated with race. Intelligence quotient as well. We don’t characterize race by statistical facts because we would offend the outliers. I think it’s important to follow etiquette in common language rather then label entire minorities or groups based off of statistics.
> Crime is also overwhelmingly associated with race. Race or poverty?
There is a correlation between crime and race. Also Race and poverty. The causal association has yet to be determined but the correlative association exists.
Re: Indifference is a power (2015)
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but if you don't add going back and feeling those emotions to the tools, you are just a timebomb running an emotional debt and dissociating from it What would that entail? I can't imagine e.g. taking some time on Sunday afternoon to feel that panic I suppressed from the crisis on Monday.
> I can't imagine e.g. taking some time on Sunday afternoon to feel that panic I suppressed from the crisis on Monday. Almost literally that. Revisit the moments that made you "suppress" things. Think of it as a post-mortem. It won't be the same, an echo distorted by time and distance, But pay attention to what you set aside. Suppressing emotions is the short term hack. The ideal is to be able to have them and still…
Unexpected but intruiging. Thanks for the guidance!