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The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

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Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#201

Post by BunsanSpace »

azangru wrote: post #79
pjc50 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote is not data. It is both true that the police absolutely suck at handling petty crime, and the Met have a fairly terrible reputation; and that more serious violent crime is much, much less of a problem in London than it used to be (and less than US cities, of course).

Sure; but the article's premise is that street crime is falling (and as a result, the police, which, presumably, has more free time on their hands, can focus on other things). Assuming petty crime is street crime, and seeing that you agree that the police suck at it, is the article's premise correct?

Similar story in Canada. Violent crime and serious crime is on a clear downward trend. Yet in most majour cities you a less safe, and the public transit system is more dangerous than ever.

Not sure about the UK, at least in Canada it's poverty/people being broke. More homeless people and the general harassment they inflict on people in their surrounding area, more petty crime that the police don't bother investigating so people don't bother reporting it. More theft from grocery stores, more petty scams for <$1000 &c.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#202

Post by 9JollyOtter »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #145
9JollyOtter wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most don't want any of the options presented to them. Almost all the parties don't really serve the electorate, so a large number of people are abstaining. I appreciate this in an anecdotal but I've spoken to quite a few people I know in my family, that saw it as their civil duty to vote and they told all told me some variation of "there is nobody worth voting for", "I don't think it matters who I vote for".

The UK is FPTP. Reform split the previously unified conservative vote so labour won with a historically low %.

Turnout was historically low. Labour didn't really "win", the Conservatives lost. A lot of Conservatives voters didn't really recognise the party.

Also not every Reform voter would vote Conservative if Reform didn't exist.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#203

Post by gadders »

flumpcakes wrote: post #193

I wonder how many people are actually from the UK on these threads. There is always comments about "diversity" and "grooming rape gangs" and how everything labour do is bad, or about how the UK is an oppressive regime or somehow fundamentally anti-freedom. This always reads like fear mongering / Russian psy-ops propaganda to me. I have many bones to pick with the UK government but a large number of people sprinting t…

[flagged]

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#204

Post by tialaramex »

tdeck wrote: post #189
tialaramex wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the really boring things about crime stats is that if you insist that "Nobody will do anything" and so you don't bother to report crimes, the crime stats go down -- because you didn't report a crime. It suits a certain kind of person to have this obvious statistical fact portrayed as some sort of failing of existing institutions. Because it's just how statistics work it won't magically change if you're dumb en…

While this sounds true, it's also true that police often will try to bully you into abandoning a crime report or treat you with contempt of they don't consider the crime "worthwhle". So not only do you not get a resolution, as expected, but you get to waste your time and be treated poorly. All that to increment a couter that might in aggregate reach a number that might get noticed by someone that might result in a po…

So, fun fact, I actually reported a crime last week.

A few days later I got a "Caller ID blocked" call and was like "Scammers?" but I'm the kind of person who at least answers the call to say "Fuck off" if they're scammers and it wasn't a scam it was some nice lady whose job is to sift this endless pile of crime reports.

She didn't treat me with contempt, though of course she's not going to magically make the crime not have happened, or - given I wasn't sure who did it - even commit to having somebody actually do anything about it. But hey, that's statistics for you.

I disagree that somehow picking up litter is different. You're not going to magically make there not be any litter are you? No. But nevertheless in aggregate it has an effect.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#205

Post by skippyboxedhero »

fidotron wrote: post #141
widdershins wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, but also how to explain the crazy claims flying around the internet that London is a warzone and a no-go area? I live here and... seriously, nothing has changed. I feel perfectly safe and always have. Yeah sure, there's some phone theft, it's not great. This phone theft wave is just a symptom of everyone carrying £500 devices around. Big cities have always had theft, pickpocket and snatching crimes. But it's no…

Because everyone that experiences the crime stops tolerating it and leaves. This is why the area around the greenbelt so closely resembles the inner cities of 20 years before. This isn't some new phenomenon - Lee Kuan Yew famously described the newspaper purchasing arrangement at Piccadilly Circus in the 1950s, which was incomprehensible by the 1980s. I'm old enough to remember when they had posters telling people no…

I lived in South London a few decades ago, it was the exact same situation.

Lived in central London, close to 100% of the crime was happening from one area. Police refused to go into that area because of "community relations". No crime in areas that didn't abut this location but no desire to fix. Police pretend to police.

Moved to South London, crime more prevalent but, again, certain areas are worse. Police won't go to these areas, "community relations" even worse. Cash machine near housing estate treated like lootbox. Next election comes round, candidate spends most of their time canvassing on estate. Police only go onto the estate to attend events with "community" telling them they are bigots. Crime continues.

Everyone who works this out either leaves or, if they get enough money, move to safe areas of West London. Today's Londoners do not realise everyone has left, it is just a bunch of people who moved there in the last ten years telling everyone how brilliant it is and pretending they have lived there for years before being forced to leave too. Property prices suggest that actual long-term citizens are continuing to leave in large numbers.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#207

Post by mytailorisrich »

iamflimflam1 wrote: post #186
mytailorisrich wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one issue we are having is that more and more things are said to be impossible to implement to the point that nothing happens... There is a lack of ambition, boldness, and leadership.

I don’t know. Increasingly I see people offering simplistic solutions that don’t even pass basic smell tests. And then when you point out the obvious flaws the response is that you just have to be brave or take a risk. But I do agree - we seem to be in a world full of intractable problems and doing something may be better than nothing.

Yes there are simplistic solutions but, on the other hand, more often that not I think that claiming that issues are extremely complex is a way of avoiding doing anything for whatever reasons. So, it depends.

I think that the UK won't solve its issues until it gets a PM with a bold plan and great leadership, whatever side they may come from.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#208

Post by 9JollyOtter »

RansomStark wrote: post #185
erichocean wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total Reform + Conservative vote was at historical lows as a percentage of the electorate.

That might be true, but the votes (not seats, first past the post, almost guarantees people aren't represented): Labour: 9.7M Conservatives 6.8M Reform: 4.1M Liberal Democrats 3.5M The point clearly stands that had Reform not been a thing, 2024 would have been a conservative landslide. What we got was a Labour landslide, what we should have got was some coalition.

As the sibling comment said. You are making the assumption that every Reform voter would have held their nose and voted Conservative instead. A lot more people would have stayed home I think. I don't think anyone thought the Conservatives could win and that includes the Conservatives themselves.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#209

Post by skippyboxedhero »

budududuroiu wrote: post #41

In China, the social contract at least is "you give up some individual freedoms and some privacy, never dissent against the government, and in exchange the government promises you prosperity" I wonder what the Brits get in exchange for their giving up of personal freedoms?

The difference is that the purpose of government in China is to govern effectively. They dedicate resources to producing leaders who have proven they can govern at lower levels to some degree (you always find that the corruption in China comes from leaders who came up through SOEs or similar). In terms of civil service and province-level leadership, it is just incredibly effective.

In the UK, you have leaders who are incredibly unpopular, they have no real skills, and they spend most of their time pandering to very small groups of people for various reasons. There is no real incentive to do anything relevant to voters, in fact you have seen over the last five years that political engagement has dropped significantly in a way that has generally benefitted incumbents.

To say this another way: the point of the UK system is so that people who are manifestly unfit to govern end up governing, and a small rotating group of special interests are continually pandered to (there is complete blindness to this in the UK, people often assume this is wealthy people when wealthy people are largely ignored...a politics grad working in research for a think tank will have more power in actual government than someone who gives £10m to the governing party).

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#210

Post by 9JollyOtter »

iamflimflam1 wrote: post #177
mytailorisrich wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was of the opinion that the best thing for the UK economy was Brexit I don't want to start another Brexit debate or even take position on it. However I'd like to point out that the key with Brexit is the plan on what to do afterwards and that is what has been completely lacking. Whatever one's opinion of Cummings, he did put forward a plan and that plan was never attempted (probably too bold, shall we say, for p…

I would say “could not possibly be implemented” rather than “bold”. Anyone can propose a brave or bold course of action. It’s very rare these people have any idea how to actually execute their plans.

> It’s very rare these people have any idea how to actually execute their plans.

Regarding Cummins, Why exactly? Dominic Cummins is articulate, seems to be quite intelligent and seems to be very fact/data orientated. I've also heard him describe how he would action particular policy.

Therefore I find it hard to believe he had didn't have any idea on how to execute his plans.

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