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BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

thedriven.io

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Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#201

Post by lkois »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #158
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about turn signal vs brake lights? Potentially as extraneous as range to a surface that a camera can’t tell apart from background. More to the point, everyone but Tesla is doing cameras plus Lidar. It’s increasingly looking like the correct bet.

> doing cameras plus Lidar At what proportion? Is it mostly lidar or mostly cameras? Or 50/50? > Potentially as extraneous as range to a surface that a camera can’t tell apart from background. I guess yeah for backside of the car you'd probably better off measuring actual actions. How about when you come 4 way stop. LIDAR is useless as it wouldn't recognize anyones turn signals.

What do you mean by proportion? They are different data sources, and their usage is determined by system design.

eg A driving decision system needs to know object distances AND traffic light colours. It doesn't particularly need to know the source of either. You could have a camera-only system that accurately determines colour and fuzzy-determines distance. Or you could have a LIDAR-only system that accurately determines distance and fuzzy-determines colour.

Or you use both, get accurate LIDAR-distance and accurate camera-colour and skip all the fuzzy-determination steps. Or keep the fuzzy stuff and build a layer of measurement-agreement for redundancy.

So then the question becomes, what's your proportion when deciding whether to stop at a traffic light? Is it mostly light colour or mostly distance to other objects? Or 50/50?

I'd say it's 100/100.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#202

Post by TitaRusell »

rootusrootus wrote: post #94
cyberax wrote: post #16

Keep in mind, that $25k AUD is just $16600. And for that price, you're getting a real car with driver-assist features and a reasonable crash safety rating. The US car manufacturers are cooked.

I think it's a little early to make that claim. Jim Farley is definitely paying attention, for example. He drove a Chinese EV for a year, IIRC, and on many occasions talked bout the challenges of competing with them. I don't know what the real barrier to success will be, but I don't think it will be blindness. It may be difficulty competing on labor cost, but that's a good case for carefully applied tariffs to keep c…

What is unfair about lower labor costs?

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#203

Post by pests »

teleforce wrote: post #88

Are you serious, a car with Lidar sensor that's not even available in Bugatti Tourbillon that cost 500x more? Joking aside, this BYD Seagull, or Atto 1 in Australia (AUD$24K) and Dolphin Surf in Europe (￡18K in the UK), is one the cheapest EV cars in the world and selling at around ￡6K in China. It's priced double in Australia and triple in the UK compared to its original price in China. It's also one of China best s…

> claimed 0–50 km/h (31 mph) acceleration time of 4.9 seconds,[45] and a 0–100 km/h (62 mph) time of 13 seconds.

Aww

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#204

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #158
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about turn signal vs brake lights? Potentially as extraneous as range to a surface that a camera can’t tell apart from background. More to the point, everyone but Tesla is doing cameras plus Lidar. It’s increasingly looking like the correct bet.

> doing cameras plus Lidar At what proportion? Is it mostly lidar or mostly cameras? Or 50/50? > Potentially as extraneous as range to a surface that a camera can’t tell apart from background. I guess yeah for backside of the car you'd probably better off measuring actual actions. How about when you come 4 way stop. LIDAR is useless as it wouldn't recognize anyones turn signals.

> At what proportion? Is it mostly lidar or mostly cameras? Or 50/50?

What proportion of your vision is rods or cones? Depends on the context. You can do without one. But it’s better with both.

> How about when you come 4 way stop. LIDAR is useless as it wouldn't recognize anyones turn signals

Bad example. 99% of a 4-way stop is remembering who moved last, who moves next by custom and who may jump the line. What someone is indicating is, depending on where you are, between mildly helpful and useless.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#205

Post by tonyhb »

sroussey wrote: post #192
brightball wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s room for both points of view here. Going all in on visual processing means you can use it anywhere a person can go in any other technology, Optimus robots are just one example. And he’s not wrong that roads and driving laws are all built around human visual processing. The recent example of a power outage in SF where lidar powered Waymo’s all stopped working when the traffic lights were out and Tesla…

> roads and driving laws are all built around human visual processing. And people die all the time. > The recent example of a power outage in SF where lidar powered Waymo’s all stopped working when the traffic lights were out and Tesla self driving continued operating normally makes a good case for the approach. Huh? Waymo is responsible for injury, so all their cars called home at the same time DOS themselves rather…

> And people die all the time.

Yes... but people can only focus on one thing at a time. We don't have 360 vision. We have blind spots! We don't even know the exact speed of our car without looking away from the road momentarily! Vision based cars obviously don't have these issues. Just because some cars are 100% vision doesn't mean that it has to share all of the faults we have when driving.

That's not me in favour of one vs the other. I'm ambivalent and don't actually care. They can clearly both work.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#206

Post by refulgentis »

DustinBrett wrote: post #183
refulgentis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies, I was unclear with the "i.e." bit I assume, to spell it out: I think after struggling with it over years its time to call it because Waymo has a scaled paid service, no drivers, multiple cities, for 1 year+.

But I told you it wasn't without drivers, so where is the response there or acknowledgment of the fact they all went down?

It’s because you spam this thread so much with such aggressive language that it honestly is scary to deal with you.

You’re smart Darren, and so are other people, you should assume I knew the cars have remote backup operators. Again, you’re smart, you also know why that doesn’t mitigate having a scaled robotaxi service vs. nothing

I doubt you’ll chill out but here’s a little behind the scenes peek for you that also directly address what you’re saying: a big turning point for me was getting a job at Google and realizing Elon was talking big game but there’s 100,000 things you gotta do to run a robot taxi service and Tesla was doing none of them. The epiphany came when I saw the windshield wipers for cameras and lidar.

You might note even a platonically ideal robotaxi service would always have capacity for remote operation.

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#207

Post by wongarsu »

consumer451 wrote: post #186
wongarsu wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intentionally trying to create traffic accidents is illegal. This isn't an FSD-thing. If you try to intentionally get humans to crash their cars you are going to get into trouble. I don't see how this suddenly becomes OK when done to competent FSD (not that I'd count Tesla among them)

If I understand your argument correctly, then posting a sign that it is incorrect.. like a wrong way highway on-ramp sign, would be illegal? That sounds correct. But what if your city hired you to paint a sunset mural on a wall, and then a vision-only system killed a family of four by driving into it, during some "edge case" lighting situation? I would like to think that we would apply "security is an onion" to our p…

I did only talk about malicious attempts being punished, and the sunset mural would not be malicious

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#208

Post by kelnos »

iknowstuff wrote: post #12
cr125rider wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true at all. Tesla taxis aren’t even close to Waymo’s capabilities.

I said adas, nothing about waymo. That being said, yes they are, I ride them every day.

How can you possibly say that Tesla taxis have similar capabilities to Waymos when the former requires a safety driver to be present?

Re: BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech

#210

Post by shaklee3 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #79
iknowstuff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo is not an adas. There’s nothing close to FSD 14 abilities out there for consumers. And your stats comparing to waymo are made up and debunked in the very reddit thread they came from

Llm hallucination? I want to give posters the benefit of the doubt but I didn't mention a reddit thread. If you're just getting me mixed up with another poster, I got my stats from an electrek article supplemented by Waymo's releases: https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ Tesla's tech is also marketed as a full self driving autopilot, not just basic driver assistance like adaptive cruise control. That's how they're doing…

They have someone in the driver's seat
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