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Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

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Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#201

Post by jaggs »

Electricniko wrote: post #192
jaggs wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not too sure of your point. The skateboard has been available with conventional lithium ion batteries. What they're saying here is they've just upgraded it to the new solid state ones. Fairly logical.And I'm totally mystified by the shared leadership comment. What shared leadership?

According to press releases, the CEO of Donut/Verge founded Cova and ESOX in October/November. They're newly formed companies that haven't done anything yet, so I don't really think it would require much sophistication to say that three companies have already adopted this technology. Again, this doesn't say anything about the "realness" of the battery technology, I just wouldn't rely on the idea that multiple compani…

Hmm..not really. Cova Power is a joint venture between Donut Labs and Ahola which is a huge Finnish freight company formed in 1955 - which makes sense since they are both based in Finland. The involvement of the University of Oulu suggests that this is clearly a Finnish project. I wouldn't be surprised to find some Nokia money in there as well. ESOX is just the military product arm of Donut Labs, which I guess has connections with the Finnish military.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#202

Post by tempsaasexample »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #200
testing22321 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried to fuel a ICE vehicle in a power outage? I waited a week in the Congo. Getting fuel out of underground tanks and paying for it are non trivial with no power. I can charge an EV off my solar panels.

And solar is just one of many ways of generating electricity. Wind turbines continue to work, as do hydroelectric plants (and on a smaller scale, water wheels). Worst case scenario, you can burn more readily accessible carbon based fuels like wood to make steam to generate power. Vehicles that are dependent on extraction and refinement of petroleum are actually quite limited in comparison.

On a side note, you should look up "wood gas". There are YouTube videos of 110v generators running off wood gas, and while it takes a bit of setup, it's within the realm of what a country person could do in a weekend or two. By weight, I think I remember that it takes 4x of wood vs gasoline to get the same energy. So while a generator takes 6 lbs of gasoline (a gallon) to give you ~5kw, it takes 25 lbs of wood. Sounds bad til you realize how much a tree weighs.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#203

Post by tempsaasexample »

ninkendo wrote: post #99
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even as things currently stand, some folks just have a bone to pick with EVs. Even if future models have an 800mi range, can charge to 100% in 5 minutes, and have useful lifetimes as long or longer than ICE counterparts, some will figure out some reason to get angry about them.

It’s range anxiety and it’s real. And it’s not entirely unjustified. Where I live in the Midwest I have literally never seen a public charging station. I know they exist because I can search for them on maps app and I see dots, but it speaks to their general small numbers that I’ve never seen one in person that I can remember. Now, prior to this, I lived in California for many years from 2011 until 2019, and I saw to…

I'm in California, and cost per mile of electricity vs gasoline is pretty similar in a Gen 1 Chevy Volt. I get 35 miles per gallon. That's also how for I can go on 10kwh in the good conditions. If gasoline is below $4.50 a gallon, it's cheaper to just run the volt on gasoline than it is to charge it at home.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#205

Post by gosub100 »

yencabulator wrote: post #126
ninkendo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for the people I know well (I know people from lots of different backgrounds here), but I can confidently say that every one of them would love EVs if charging stations were everywhere and charged in 10 minutes. There may be a real chicken-and-egg problem with building the charging stations, but if it were magically fixed and ultra fast charging stations were ubiquitous overnight, I think minds would…

> I can confidently say that every one of them would love EVs if [...] And I can confidently say I see rural pickup owners rolling coal about weekly, so no, they will not be loving EVs, because it hampers them destroying their surroundings.

Rolling coal is rude an obnoxious but doesn't "destroy" anything. I think you are projecting something personal against the stereotype guy that does that. Just like someone who was bullied might irrationally hate tough looking bikers.

Some men (and women!) like large and overpowered trucks. You don't have to like them, but you should praise the freedom that this country gives us to choose our own pursuits.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#206

Post by chrsw »

dust42 wrote: post #180
dm808 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cnvc.org/store/nonviolent-communication-a-langua...

Here some info about the claim of 600km/344m range of Verge motor cycles as it was said and shown in the video. The website of Verge bikes states the following: City estimate 600km: "The city estimate calculated by Verge aims to provide a reasonable approximation of calm stop-and-go riding in an urban environment at low speeds. The estimate assumes a 75 kg rider and ideal riding conditions in terms of temperature, wi…

I agree. If this were real, it would be a much bigger deal. They're preying on people's hopes.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#207

Post by bigwheels »

tomhow wrote: post #66
bigwheels wrote: post #26

[flagged]

Please don't post curmudgeonly, sneering comments or shallow dismissals on HN. We're here for curious conversation that engages with the content of the article, not reflexive, blanket dismissals based on stereotypes. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry Tom, that wasn't my intention at all. I read the article and it hit on a few, perhaps I should have elaborated more on that. Thank you!

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#208

Post by sfink »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #87
sfink wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based wholly on the claims in the article: [x] it is impractical to manufacture at scale. [?] it will be too expensive for users. (Cost unknown, but it's part of a $35K motorcycle, which somewhat limits the possible range unless there's VC chum involved.) [x] it suffers from too few recharge cycles. [x] it is incapable of delivering current at sufficient levels. (Motorcycle, again.) [x] it lacks thermal stability at…

> [x] it suffers from too few recharge cycles. 100000 recharge cycles is "too few"? Or are you using "x" to mean "this claim is rejected"? If so, on what grounds do you assert "[x] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it"?

I am using "x" to mean that the line item is addressed by the article. Sorry, I guess that's backwards from the original intent of the checklist.

I am saying that the article addresses every reason for doubt that the checklist raises (save for the last, which it can't). Whether the technology actually addresses that shortcoming is another question, but the article does claim to have solved every single one of those common drawbacks.

As for the item about li-ion advances, I think the claimed capabilities are well beyond what li-ion could reasonably be expected to reach in the short remaining timeframe claimed.

tl;dr: the checklist is a cynical but normally accurate way of spotting fatal flaws in newly announced battery technology. Based on the announcement, this technology suffers from none of the flaws listed therein.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#209

Post by Jommi »

Aloisius wrote: post #57
cm2012 wrote: post #50

If true, would have massive geopolitical implications. 1) China has gone all in on batteries. A competitor from Finland would be shocking. Scale is the real issue. 2) Luckily Finland hates Russia so this probably can't be used for Russian drones

Eh. There are at least a half dozen other companies with working solid state batteries outside China like Rimac in Estonia (with ProLogium in Taiwan and Mitsubishi), Solid Power in Colorado (with Samsung SDI) and QuantumScape in California (with VW's PowerCo SE). Mass manufacturing them is the big issue.

Rimac in Croatia!

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#210

Post by Jommi »

p1mrx wrote: post #23

If this is true, it's possible that the technology is from Nordic Nano. That would at least explain how a motor/software company could pull a battery out of thin air: https://www.donutlab.com/nordic-nano-investment/ Their chief scientist is working on solar-powered hydrogen production, which seems fairly unrelated to solid state batteries: https://www.nordicnano.co/chief-scientist-bela-bhuskute-will... Though TiO2 na…

They had a presentation with data also few months ago https://spacefinland.fi/documents/60305973/246671122/Kaisa_A...
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