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Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

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Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#201

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

subscribed wrote: post #123
barbazoo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t know a single real person that still wants to use wired earphones with their phone. To me it’s the same as complaining that an artist only has CDs, not records.

Wired headphones have no latency. AptX-LL are rare in the good quality headsets.

This right here, especially for gaming.

When I use my Sony XM5 Bluetooth headphones, the latency is noticeable. Watching videos, the lips don't match the audio. Playing games, I see things before I hear them. It's probably in the ~150-200 ms range for latency.

While gaming, I use a different set of wireless headphones that use a proprietary dongle. If they have any latency at all, I don't notice it.

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#202

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #69
smallstepforman wrote: post #17

Most audiophiles ignore bluetooth headphones due to sound quality + latency, so we (audiophiles) stick to wired at home and we also have dedicated headphone amps since the pissy sound card D/A convertors are incredibly bad. Bluetooth only when I’m doing yard work. Sadly, modern music is tuned to crappy headphones, crappy car systems, crappy speakers … I miss the 80’s audiophile obsession, the equipment had heart, and…

- Apple has a lossless codec for wireless, ALAC that can do up to 24bit/192khz - aptX can do 44/16 in other devices, Sony has LDAC at 24/96 too - latency under We have amazing technology available today, at prices and quality unimaginable in the 80s. A $50 in-ear from a chinese hi-fi brand can give you an audio experience you couldn’t buy for thousands of dollars a decade ago. And there’s more and more analog hardwar…

> - aptX can do 44/16 in other devices, Sony has LDAC at 24/96 too

FWIW, 44/16 can still sound like garbage if compressed using lossy compression with a low bitrate.

But aptX is over 300 kbps. That's plenty of bandwidth to sound excellent, and I think anybody who says it doesn't sound good is lying to themselves.

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#203

Post by CGMthrowaway »

fny wrote: post #193
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kamala Harris, citing seemingly classified intelligence, famously raised the alarm on Bluetooth earphones to Stephen Colbert: “I know I've been teased about this, but I like these kinds of earpods that have the thing [pointing to the wire] because I served on the Senate Intelligence Committee. I have been in classified briefings, and I'm telling you, don't be on the train using your earpods thinking somebody can't li…

I doubt this was ever classified information. It's written all over DoD and NSA requirements and best practices for staff and diplomats. She was probably briefed repeatedly about this as a member of that committee. Here's one example: > Headphones are wired headphones (i.e. not wireless) which can be plugged into a computing device to listen to audio media (e.g. music, Defense Collaboration Services, etc.).[0] [0]: h…

>I doubt this was ever classified information.

The classified part would be the intelligence that the wireless protocol is compromised. I don't see that in your document.

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#204

Post by astura »

quesera wrote: post #106
astura wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There hasn't been a POTUS or VPOTUS with a technical background in the last 45 years (Jimmy Carter was a nuclear engineer). So obviously none of them would be authoritative on such topics. Jimmy Carter was a very smart guy, but he was not a nuclear engineer. https://atomicinsights.com/jimmy-carter-never-served-nuclear...

Interesting, it looks more complicated than I realized. "Nuclear engineer" might be too colloqualized, a la "software engineer". (perish the thought!) But he was an engineer who was trained to operate nuclear facilities on subs. With a few more months of service he would have qualified for the label "nuclear engineer" without any asterisks. And what even was a "nuclear engineer" in the early 1950s? The field was new…

It's not "complicated", Jimmy Carter was not a nuclear engineer.

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#205

Post by jogu »

bethekidyouwant wrote: post #196
jogu wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you should have actually watched the “long ass video”. It allows the pairing key to be exfiltrated from the compromised device and an external, attacker controlled device to perform any function the original device could. This includes retrieving the paired devices phone number, answering phone calls, and receiving the audio. They live demo hijacking a whatsapp account using this.

Neat. It appears my headphones have to be in pairing mode. Which is a very short window, at which point the attacker can impersonate your device. this allows him to answer phone calls for you or make phone calls, but you would notice right away. It’s not like cloning the audio and eves dropping. so yeah it’s a nothing burger.

Some devices are/were only vulnerable during the initial pairing but a key point from this talk was that most of these devices were vulnerable during normal use.

The RACE protocol could be accessed even if the device isn’t in pairing mode. Then once you have a target device’s key you can carry out the attack at anytime, when they’d be unlikely to notice.

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#206

Post by slumberlust »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #191
dijit wrote: post #3

And everyone got mad at OpenBSD for refusing to develop bluetooth. It’s a messy standard and we shouldn’t be surprised that the race to the bottom has left some major gaps.. though Sony WH1000’s are premium tier hardware and they have no real excuses.. I always wondered how people could justify the growth of the bluetooth headphone market in such a way.. Everyone seems to use bluetooth headphones exclusively (in Swed…

> part of me has always known that bluetooth is just hacks on hacks… I allowed myself to be persuaded due to popularity. Scary. Is it scary? Bluetooth is wildly convenient, and mostly works most of the time. There are definite software issues, and there are security issues, but for most of us, we're not going to run into them that often. (Well, ok - maybe not for most of the people on this site.) I'm going to continu…

I find Bluetooth to be a the least reliable technology I use.

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#207

Post by munchler »

barbazoo wrote: post #80
p0w3n3d wrote: post #4

Meanwhile all the phones dropping jack because Apple started it. Official reason is to "waterproof phones"

I just don’t know a single real person that still wants to use wired earphones with their phone. To me it’s the same as complaining that an artist only has CDs, not records.

Good wired headphones (or in-ear monitors) still sound noticeably better than wireless. This makes a big difference when listening to music.

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#208

Post by willnix »

unsettledturtle wrote: post #74

checking my understanding: this vuln is in the firmware for specific airoha chipsets; e.g. if a bluetooth device is listed as using a qualcomm chipset then it's unaffected by this specific vuln? ... though I wouldn't be surprised if we see a burst of similar disclosures for other manufacturers in the next year or so

Your understanding is correct :)

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#209

Post by quesera »

astura wrote: post #204
quesera wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, it looks more complicated than I realized. "Nuclear engineer" might be too colloqualized, a la "software engineer". (perish the thought!) But he was an engineer who was trained to operate nuclear facilities on subs. With a few more months of service he would have qualified for the label "nuclear engineer" without any asterisks. And what even was a "nuclear engineer" in the early 1950s? The field was new…

It's not "complicated", Jimmy Carter was not a nuclear engineer.

He was an engineer who worked on nuclear things. Hand-picked by Rickover for work on the project.

I'm going with "functionally pretty darn close", and the details are a bit ambiguous and/or complicated.

You can persist in whatever version of it you prefer, however, it is no interest of mine.

Re: Bluetooth Headphone Jacking: A Key to Your Phone [video]

#210

Post by bethekidyouwant »

jogu wrote: post #205
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neat. It appears my headphones have to be in pairing mode. Which is a very short window, at which point the attacker can impersonate your device. this allows him to answer phone calls for you or make phone calls, but you would notice right away. It’s not like cloning the audio and eves dropping. so yeah it’s a nothing burger.

Some devices are/were only vulnerable during the initial pairing but a key point from this talk was that most of these devices were vulnerable during normal use. The RACE protocol could be accessed even if the device isn’t in pairing mode. Then once you have a target device’s key you can carry out the attack at anytime, when they’d be unlikely to notice.

If you have the target device key, you can impersonate the device later. But how do you get the device key in the real world? I would need to be in pairing mode for you to get it. Even if you did get it, then you can answer my calls if you are next to me, which in the real world is certainly noticeable.
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