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Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

monogame.net

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Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#201

Post by mjg2 »

croes wrote: post #106
mjg2 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It expands their empire like Microsoft pledging to "support" Open Source: it's disingenuous, self-serving, and develops a "claim" of authority over the sector. It allows them, the makers of Unreal Engine, to develop a business relationship with their competition and influence the trajectory on one of only major alternatives in order to control the market more. If Epic Games really cared about Godot, they would align…

The other option is Epic is the same as now but Godot gets no money

It's all hypothetical for a transaction 5 years in the past. The future you propose is one where Epic is not actually the same: they have more liquid capital towards the mission their stakeholders decide, and less influence on Godot.

However, their stakeholders decided circa 2019/2020 that they want to influence the development of Godot and spent their money that way. Corporate donations aren't at a whim like us individuals who spend $3/mo on Wikipedia or a food pantry, it's considered by the executive team, calculated and green-lit by their accounting team.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#202

Post by jaggederest »

collingreen wrote: post #163
DrewADesign wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy would probably cancel, anyway, because his friend didn't want to pay him for driving them to the restaurant.

I'm giving the pleasure of being in my incredible presence why should I do that for free?

I'm reminded of this story in the New Yorker: https://archive.ph/wNydh

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#203

Post by to11mtm »

unpopularopp wrote: post #89

I'm sorry but why C#? Isn't the big tech (Microsoft) in this case is a very big downside? Why not LÖVE (Lua) for example? https://love2d.org/ There is also libGDX (Java) but not sure Oracle is any better than Microsoft. https://libgdx.com/

C# has been favored by a lot of game devs for some time. You've got Godot, Unity, I think you can do -some- things in unreal engine with C#...

In contrast to java it has added a lot of helpful constructs for high performance code like game dev; things like `Span` and `Memory` plus ref structs make it easier to produce code that avoids allocation on the heap (and thus lower GC pauses, which are a concern for most types of game dev).

At least for now I'd rather trust Microsoft than Oracle, esp since both CoreCLR and Mono are under more permissive licenses than Java and have been for some time.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#204

Post by 1123581321 »

mjg2 wrote: post #199
squigz wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. What exactly makes his charity genuine vs Epic's charity "disingenuous"?

Ostensibly what u/skibidithink replied. We should have a healthy distrust of international corporations giving for unapparent reasons beyond being in the same sector. We can gesture about how a gift has no obligations, but no one gets into business to not make money, and true charity is without obligation. ConcernedApe donated to give back to the foundation he came from, while Epic is out for global domination in the…

Tim Sweeney also has indie game developer roots; can’t he give to projects in the same spirit as how he started?

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#205

Post by gamblor956 »

Steve6 wrote: post #147
firefax wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't want to assume, but I don't recollect any contributions of that magnitude from large studios (spare Valve). This indy developer (is that label fair?) is putting AAA studios to shame. Despite all the talk from libertarians about how private donations are the solution to the world's ills, open source software very rarely gets substantial donations.

Libertarians don't claim that they have "the solution to the world's ills". Just that the government is causing worse problems than it solves, and generally those problems can be handled by a free market. We're already being taxed like crazy while that money subsidizes things almost everyone disagrees with. The libertarians believe that if people weren't taxed as much they could voluntarily spend money on things that…

Historically, donations to charities drop when tax rates go down. As a percentage of income, donations were highest when tax rates were highest.

The best example that low tax rates don't increase giving: in 2017 the TCJA reduced tax rates for most people, and increased the standard deduction (but reduced the charitable deduction). Even though they were being taxed less and had more money to donate, Americans donated several billion less to charities each year (estimates very, but they're all between $15 and $20 billion less each year).

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#206

Post by johndough »

tracker1 wrote: post #152
vunderba wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And honestly, 10k sales is the bare minimum. Even if you’re a solo dev with no team and you handle everything yourself (programming, sound, music, art, marketing) to keep costs down, you’re still looking at around 6–12 months of work. Most indie games don’t sell for more than $10 USD, but let’s be generous and say you manage to convince your audience to pay $20. Total: 200,000 USD After Steam Cut: 140,000 USD A…

I was thinking 10K copies as a metric for even modest "success" for a game, but you're right about the expenses and income... That said, depending on where you live, that's a pretty good income.

In 2021, only the top 8 % of games sold 10k copies or more, so if you were among them, you were quite successful.

Source: https://app.sensortower.com/vgi/insights/article/video-game-...

In addition, a large fraction of those 8 % were probably games by AAA studios, so your chances as an indie dev are even lower.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#207

Post by eswat »

mips_avatar wrote: post #122

As someone who has been solo developing an app for months concerned ape is such an inspiration. He literally spent 5 years on stardew valley with zero income. It's such a beautiful game and reminds me what you can do when you follow what feels right.

IIRC he has a supportive partner that took care of being the breadwinner during that development period though.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#208

Post by benoau »

skibidithink wrote: post #194
benoau wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, what they actually do for most games is basically what Google and Apple do: a token review, then nothing apart from some niceties for players. Then they pocket an immense profit, it came out in one of Epic's cases that Valve net $50 million/year profit per employee . The only thing for developers they still do better than Google and Apple really is a few promotions throughout the year that target specific…

What Steam brings is a firehose of gamers with their credit cards ready to all the games they think will be successful. There's a reason why everyone launches on Steam.

That firehose isn't pointed at everyone, being the newest game on Steam has a very fleeting value and then it's on you to find customers. It used to be that Steam played a much more active role in spreading traffic around games but these days the median game is doing $1,000 - $2,000 in sales which is like 100 - 200 copies sold. It's more and more like Google and Apple where what you get out of it is just a function of how much you spend on customer acquisition, how well you reach social media, and whether you can leverage these to become popular enough to achieve prominence.

Everyone launches on Steam because they are an utterly-entrenched monopoly, all other PC game distribution channels are collectively a very small percent.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#209

Post by drfuzzy89 »

1123581321 wrote: post #204
mjg2 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ostensibly what u/skibidithink replied. We should have a healthy distrust of international corporations giving for unapparent reasons beyond being in the same sector. We can gesture about how a gift has no obligations, but no one gets into business to not make money, and true charity is without obligation. ConcernedApe donated to give back to the foundation he came from, while Epic is out for global domination in the…

Tim Sweeney also has indie game developer roots; can’t he give to projects in the same spirit as how he started?

Sure, and maybe he does. I think there's a difference between Epic doing it as a company, for which they would likely expect to extract some value from the contribution, and Sweeney doing it as an individual.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#210

Post by nu11ptr »

bevr1337 wrote: post #120
sneak wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gifts do not confer obligation. Copying deprives the original party of nothing. Absolutely nothing about free software requires or even implies any responsibility to “give back”. This idea that anyone making money with free software somehow owes the original authors anything (or “should” donate a portion of their profits) is ridiculous. If the authors wanted money for their software, they would have sold it instead o…

> Gifts do not confer obligation. Remind me, which Ferengi Rule of Acquisition is this? There's not much argument to be had. You've created a logical justification for a myopic, misanthropic world view. > My friend bought me lunch. I used that energy at my job. Do I owe them part of my paycheck? Many find reciprocation important in a relationship.

> You've created a logical justification for a myopic, misanthropic world view.

Nobody said it wouldn't be nice, but that it does not confer "obligation". This is the key word. I would argue a world where people do things because they want to, and not because they feel they have to, would actually generally be a nicer world to live in.

> Many find reciprocation important in a relationship.

Yes, and those sorts of relationships aren't really built on much if a gift obligates the other to repay. Why even buy lunch then? It just becomes this back and forth obligation and it is wearing and actually erodes the relationship slightly, if anything. I would argue a true gift is one that does not obligate the other party to reciprocate. That does NOT mean it would not be a decent thing to do something nice (for the other person OR someone else), but just that it is not obligated. The person should not feel a weight to do so. Once this weight is lifted, it is actually very freeing, and it strengthens the relationship, if anything.

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