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Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

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Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#201

Post by Ajedi32 »

docjay wrote: post #159
Ajedi32 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have it backwards. This is what happens when we rank human lives over human freedom. The argument for these cameras is that they save lives. The argument against them is that they destroy freedom.

I don’t know that I’ve heard the “saves lives” argument for this type of camera. How would that play out?

That's easy. Person gets kidnapped, government surveillance camera helps police find the car before the kidnapper kills them. Or, probably more common: murder happens, government surveillance camera helps police find murderer and jail them before they kill someone else.

That's why these cameras are so prevalent, the case for them is extremely obvious and easy to make (give police more tools to stop bad guys), while the case against them is a lot more subtle (human freedom, government abuse, expectations of privacy, risk of data breaches, etc).

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#202

Post by thedougd »

eddyg wrote: post #47

Yes, they should be secured so they can only be accessed by law enforcement. But if your spouse/SO/sister/mother/girlfriend/whatever was assaulted while jogging in a park that had Flock cameras, and it allowed law enforcement to quickly identify, track, apprehend and charge the criminal, you'd absolutely be grateful for the technology. There's nothing worse than being told "we don't have any leads" when someone you c…

I'll make up another one to pile on. Perhaps the police would have had a visible, deterrent presence if they weren't lazily relying on cameras, and that would have prevented the assault in the first place.

Anyhow, if you read the flock database, they're overwhelmingly not using them for the purposes of public safety or random crime.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#203

Post by overfeed »

esseph wrote: post #74
simlevesque wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what happens when we rank private property over human lives. We deserve this.

No, we do not "deserve this". The universe has no concept of "deserve".

"Deserving" not in the sense of dharma/karma, but as a natural consequence of prior actions.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#204

Post by freeone3000 »

afavour wrote: post #112
leeoniya wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're thinking Chinese surveillance the big irony, of course, is that i'm much more comfortable with China surveilling me than the US, since the latter can throw me in jail, seize my assets, and ruin my family's life, while the former cannot.

The US government is a democracy and can be replaced should it exceed people’s limits. The CCP… uh, not so much. I’m not trying to say the US government is faultless but it amazes me how often I see this kind of anti-democratic institition sentiment.

It’s not anti-democratic, it’s simply a matter of exposure. China can WANT to do whatever they want to me, but I have no assets in China, no trade in China, and neither me nor anyone close to me will ever go to China. So it simply matters a lot less what China has on me than the country where I have friends, loved ones, financial assets, property, and frequently visit.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#205

Post by givemeethekeys »

gruez wrote: post #169
givemeethekeys wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same at all because Signal helps celebrities and very important public figures communicate securely and privately. Flock is helping the rapists stalk their ex-wives.

"Not the same at all because Flock helps companies and public safety agencies detect and monitor crime. Signal is helping cartels organize hits."

Everyone uses Signal to communicate privately.

Criminals use Flock to stalk public figures, celebrities, women and children.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#206

Post by ryandrake »

array_key_first wrote: post #156
embedding-shape wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know about China's legal system, but even assuming it's more fucked, it's all the way over there. Not here. You're saying that the US legal system is extremely bad, shouldn't the assumption be that other countries have it better? I don't know much about either country's legal systems, but I do know that if I feel like my country is extremely bad at something, other countries probably do it better, at least…

Maybe, I mostly gave that disclaimer to say that it actually doesn't matter much. Even if it's worse, that's still better, because it's over there. But yes, generally, I assume virtually every developed country (and some of the kind of developed countries) have a more just and competent legal system than the US. The US is an interesting beast, because when you compare it to the entire world on a bunch of stuff, it do…

Not being an expert in every single country's legal system, I would guess that the USA's is about middle of the spectrum in terms of badness/fairness/justice.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#207

Post by JKCalhoun »

eightysixfour wrote: post #13

I don't want these cameras to exist but, if they're going to , might we be better off if they are openly accessible? At the very least, that would make the power they grant more diffuse and people would be more cognizant of their existence and capabilities.

I've thought the same regarding license plate readers (and saw considerable pushback on HN) — feeling like you suggest: if they have the technology anyway, why not open it up?

I imagined a "white list" though (or whatever the new term is—"permitted list"?) so that only certain license plates are posted/tracked.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#208

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

embedding-shape wrote: post #141
LocalH wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US government is a democracy and can be replaced I'm not sure this is as axiomatic as many think, in 2025

I've already placed my bets that current president will be the first to serve at least three terms since the two-term limit was introduced. Judging by what's happening, seems like a safer and safer bet every day.

I think the most likely reason that won't happen is some sort of cardiovascular failure (heart attack or stroke), not because anyone will actually stop the Republicans otherwise trying. Conservatives want a monarchy.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#210

Post by ryandrake »

saubeidl wrote: post #134
kklisura wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let me share this reply by Garry Tan, CEO of YC, after someone made a comment that Flock might be _pretty dystopian_ [1][2]: > You're thinking Chinese surveillance > US-based surveillance helps victims and prevents more victims [1] https://x.com/neurajordan/status/1963303084609966288 [2] https://x.com/garrytan/status/1963310592615485955

American venture capitalism ironically creates all of the same authoritarian issues as Chinese state capitalism, but without any of the lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty part.

Indeed, American capitalism is designed to lift the already-rich out of mere "rich" into "obscenely rich."
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