Correct decision. Skidmarks were detected to be present and it wasn't sabotage or somesuch. That means no award as skidmarks are considered so unprofessional at that particular award that, at this point, there's a rule against them.
Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
201–210 of 421 posts
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
You think many are built without any assistance for coding? My impression was that people were mostly concerned about game assets like graphics and music
Do you have proof that many are using AI for coding?
Not for coding, but today I stumbled upon these two building their passion project using GenAI, which would otherwise perhaps not be possible: https://reddit.com/comments/1prqfsu
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#203There is a small irony that the Indie Game Awards rejects nominations of games using AI but The Game Awards does not. It is independent teams of developers who are less likely to be able to afford to pay an artists who may be able to produce something of value with AI assets that they otherwise would not have the resources for. On the other side, it is big studios with a good track record and more investment who are…
I agree that this holds in theory, but in practice? All the overhyping of AI I've heard from the gaming sector has come from the big studios, not indies. And, as you point out, Clair Obscur isn't the 'most indie' of indies anyway.
Who is hyping the technology doesn't seem to be too relevant. Big studios have a bigger megaphone and, as another has pointed out, possibly even a financial motivation for shouting it from the rooftops for their investors to hear.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
You think many are built without any assistance for coding? My impression was that people were mostly concerned about game assets like graphics and music
I think many are built without the use of gen ai to create assets. Obviously, the term "AI" is flexible enough that you could clarify every piece of software as involving AI if you wanted to, but I don't think that's productive.
I would assume that if a tool is there and the alternative too costly that they would use the tool instead of buring their project. Just today I stumbled over this for example, where they use GenAI as well: https://reddit.com/comments/1prqfsu
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#205Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#206You need to separate AI usage from automating certain parts of a pipeline from end to end creation. Taking a scorched earth approach to AI usage is just being a luddite.
I don't think this argument is going to be very compelling. The people whom you would be trying to convince here, would just argue that the Luddites were correct in their fight against human labor being displaced. They'll argue that the power artisans had over their work was diminished with the advent of the loom, just like the power artists have over their labor is being diminished right now.
You don't really need to win an argument with luddites. Completely rejecting extremely useful technology and then picking a fight with people who don't is a way to speedrun losing, whether you have "compelling arguments" or not. If the Luddites were correct, they wouldn't be dead.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#207The game won GOTY on its merits. Then the AI disclosure came out and it got stripped. If AI use produces obviously inferior work, how did it win in the first place? Seems like the objection is to the process, not the result. Doubly so if the usage was de minimis. I think it's the artists, not the tools, that make the art. Overuse of anything is gauche; but I am confident that beautiful things can be made with almost…
> I think it's the artists, not the tools, that make the art.
I've never liked this argument. If AI is a tool, then having my own personal woodworker on staff makes me a woodworker too.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, everybody treats speed limit as expected speed as long as conditions allows it.
Whether “everyone does it” has no bearing on it being what should be done. Most people also speed up on yellow lights, but you should be doing the exact opposite.
This depends on the country. In certain countries, speed limits are set by civil engineers as a true upper limit that one is not supposed to exceed. In others, speed limits are set slightly above the average speed one is expected to drive at.
In the former sort of country, drivers are expected to use their judgement and often drive slower than the limit. In the latter sort of country, driving at the speed limit is rather... limiting, thus it is common to see drivers slightly exceeding the speed limit.
(I have a theory in my head that – in general – the former sort of country has far stricter licensing laws than the latter. I am not sure if this is true.)
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#209You need to separate AI usage from automating certain parts of a pipeline from end to end creation. Taking a scorched earth approach to AI usage is just being a luddite.
I don't think this argument is going to be very compelling. The people whom you would be trying to convince here, would just argue that the Luddites were correct in their fight against human labor being displaced. They'll argue that the power artisans had over their work was diminished with the advent of the loom, just like the power artists have over their labor is being diminished right now.
I don't disagree with your point, but regardless of how you or I feel about it, this flap will likely seem quaint a decade from now. It's the unstoppable way the world is moving.
I'd love for them to create a separate category for "Best non-AI game". They can fight it out over that award. Perhaps then in a decade or so they will quietly let the award category fade away.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#210Is anyone else detecting a phase shift in LLM criticism? Of course you could always find opinion pieces, blogs and nerdy forum comments that disliked AI; but it appears to me that hate for AI gen content is now hitting mainstream contexts, normie contexts. Feels like my grandma may soon have an opinion on this. No idea what the implications are or even if this is actually something that's happening, but I think it's…
LLMs has had a couple of years by now to show their usefulness, and while hype can drive it for a while, it's now getting to the point where hype alone can't. It needs to provide a tangible result for people.
If that tangible result doesn't occur, then people will begin to criticize everything. Rightfully so.
I.e., the future of LLMs is now wobbly. That doesn't necessarily mean a phase shift in opinion, but wobbly is a prerequisite for a phase shift.
(Personal opinion at the moment: LLMs needs a couple of miracles in the same vein as the discovery/invention of transformers. Otherwise, they won't be able to break through the current fault-barrier which is too low at the moment for anything useful.)