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NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

airqualitynews.com

201–210 of 211 posts

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#201
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European mind quivers at the thought of a state with a bigger area than most EU countries I like walking around new cities, but a lot of people are car life types

... I mean, that seems entirely irrelevant when discussing New York City, which is, geographically, rather small (though very dense).

Just like the comment I was replying to and your comment. Both add nothing and deserve nothing but flippant responses to this discussion.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#202
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Average commute in Tokyo is 45 minutes to an hour one way: https://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/05/231455 . Average commute time in Dallas is 26 minutes one way: https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city-life/dallas-suburb-s ... People in Tokyo will accept a longer commute for the sake of a better job or housing or both, because the commute is less miserable (and also because employers pay commute costs). > I’…

From your article: “The automobile provides better access than transit in all cities we compared, except in Shanghai, China, where automobile reaches about 90% of the jobs reachable by transit at 30 min.”

Yes, that's what a tragedy of the commons looks like. An individual in a given city will have a shorter commute by car. But the more people who are using cars, the worse everyone's commute gets.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#203
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tragedy of the commons. For an individual, private car is faster, but the resulting traffic ultimately makes things slower for everyone. Public transit in Tokyo is faster than private cars in car-oriented cities.

That’s not true. Public transit in Tokyo is slower than driving in Dallas or LA. Average one-way commute in LA is just over 30 minutes: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/B080ACS006037 . For Tokyo it’s 45-60 minutes based on sources I’ve seen online.

As I said on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46214609 , that statistic doesn't mean what you think it does. The article I linked doesn't have figures for Tokyo but it has Shanghai which is comparable; there are around 4x as many jobs within 30 minutes by transit in Shanghai as by car in LA, while the population is only 1.5x bigger.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#204
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokyo has a population of some 14 million. Dallas is about 1.3 million. Did you pick cities with populations exactly 10x apart on purpose or something? Got any real stats?

So what? Why do you need one city with 13 million people when the US has the land area to build 10 cities with 1.3 million people?

Because that's where people individually want to live. Cities are getting bigger, rural areas and small towns are depopulating.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> put them on rails to reduce friction Good luck climbing hills. A lot of systems like these moved away from rails onto rubber tires. Rapid bus is probably best combination. Yes it will never match the throughput of rail, but it's vastly cheaper.

Have you seen hills in NYC or (most of) other major cities? Also, the solition is deeper stations under hills & escalators.

So solution is to make from 3x more expensive to 5x more expensive?

And don't get me wrong, some places in US (with extreme density) should do this. Personally it's not the places where I'd ever want to live ever again lol.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the tire wear particulates being a huge source of particulate air emissions was an overestimate due to misunderstanding and misquotation of primary literature by secondary literature used by regulatory agencies. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.estlett.4c00792

1/6 is a lot lower (good!) but is that sufficient to say they're not a large source of particulate air emissions?

Well, scanning an article on it for Manhattan, the fraction of "road dust" PM2.5 looks like somewhere around 2-5% depending on time of year, which is a bit below contributions by sea salt.

From my limited reading, what fraction of road dust is from tire tread is unclear. The models trying to estimate it give anywhere numbers from 4 to 48%, but may be incorrect due to the citation problem above. Experiments seem to show 4-9%, but they have trouble excluding resuspended dust.

I'd also point out that if we're worried about air quality in NYC between modes of transport, then one should look at subways since PM2.5 in stations/tubes is many times that of the street and far exceeds EPA limits.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#207
post #145
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The congestion tax has far more impact on people who live and work above 60th or in the outer boroughs or NJ than it does Manhattanites. Retail, wholesale, trades, small businesses and yes commuters in these areas, which are poorer than Manhattan, suffer disproportionately

Any evidence for that impact? While the prospect of displaced traffic was very much hyped, the data I've seen is that there's very little of it.

If air pollution dropped 22% then surely traffic dropped by a similar amount

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#208
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The run up to their implementation was so deeply frustrating. The sheer number of disingenuous objections. And they’ve all been proven false.

People are seemingly okay with rationing services by time, but adamantly opposed to rationing by price. You see this everywhere throughout society. But obviously the latter is better. It offers more flexibility for consumers and more transmission of demand signals.

> People are seemingly okay with rationing services by time, but adamantly opposed to rationing by price

Maybe that has to do with the fact that lifetime is somewhat (!) equally distributed, while wealth isn't

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are seemingly okay with rationing services by time, but adamantly opposed to rationing by price. You see this everywhere throughout society. But obviously the latter is better. It offers more flexibility for consumers and more transmission of demand signals.

> People are seemingly okay with rationing services by time, but adamantly opposed to rationing by price Maybe that has to do with the fact that lifetime is somewhat (!) equally distributed, while wealth isn't

But you can make more money, but you can't make more time.
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