School cell phone bans and student achievement • Hacker News Board

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#201

Post by mghackerlady » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 7:24 PM UTC

achikin wrote: post #118

testing22321 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel that most kids with a supportive backgrounds will tame this beast for themselves eventually, so I hate to make hard "no phones" rules. I would rather they come to terms with this addiction for themselves That approach doesn’t work so well for people with drug and alcohol addictions/dependancies. What makes you think this is different?

Because it is proven that phone usage is not an addiction like drugs or alcohol. People put phones away easily if they have a reason to do so.

They aren't physically addictive like alcohol or opiates but it's very clear that many people have a psychological dependency on them. Whether or not a psychological dependency counts as an addiction is up to debate (personally, I believe they are due to my experiences with self harm, which many people including myself were or are psychologically dependant on) but the differences are mostly semantic if they end up functionally the same

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#202

Post by mghackerlady » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 7:27 PM UTC

bigC5560 wrote: post #78

RegW wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my first job out of university in the 80s, I spent all one night playing Knight Lore on the Spectrum with friends. I failed to get up the next morning. My boss drove across Leeds and to bang on the door to see if I was alright. I needed that job so I stopped playing computer games. In the 90s a later boss called me out for spending my days attached to the Slashdot firehose. I had sort-of known that it was a wastef…

As someone who graduated from high school in 2025 I completely agree with this. I am glad I had to work it out on my own, and I don't think this is a place that a school should take control. If I had to figure this out along with the stress of college, I don't know if I would be able to handle it. I also think that it has helped with my overall time management skills and prioritizing my time. I know not everyone will…

Similar situation as you, I switched to a flip phone and now use my old iPhone as a glorified youtube machine when I'm too lazy to go to my desk or don't feel like dealing with my tablets poor wifi range

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#203

Post by rootusrootus » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 7:31 PM UTC

walthamstow wrote: post #159

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be contacted in case of an emergency in the middle of the night?

I've made my peace with the tiny, tiny chance that I might miss my father's last moments because I didn't hear about his heart attack til the morning, for example. Living as if it might happen any time and I must be available for it is not healthy IMO.

I figure it's a legitimate concern. One of my older brothers keeps his phone away from his room, but not close enough to hear it ring. About 10 years ago my little brother died unexpectedly in the middle of the night and all I could do was leave my older brother a message about it. He was beating himself up about it the next morning when he got the voicemail. Not that it would have changed anything, by the time I was notified it had already happened, there was no final moments to miss. But I suspect my brother doesn't keep his phone so far from his bed now.

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#204

Post by mghackerlady » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 7:34 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #174

i_c_b wrote: post #10

Back in the late 90s, when I first entered the video game industry to work (when it was quite scruffy, countercultural, and populated by some pretty odd people), one of the first things I encountered was a new co-worker who, next to his giant tower of used Mountain Dew cans, had a black and white TV in his cubicle. This struck me as very odd at that moment in time - as I understood things, obviously the point of work…

I'm trying, but it's so hard! I put my phone in a drawer. Everything's in silent mode. I have a fully disconnected, distraction-free iPad for reading and writing. Work only happens on the computer. There are no emails on the phone. Yet, I can't fully disconnect. Every device, every account, every app mixes work stuff and personal life stuff. And software is so sticky! I can't just check one thing without my attention…

I started by just turning off notifications for anything that isn't needed for important people (eg: friends and family) to reach me. I got rid of most social media[0] a little while after that. Another thing I did when I still used a smartphone was remove all the apps from my home screen. At least on iOS, notification badges don't appear in their slide-out app tray thing. For quick access to essentials I used an app that provides a widget for hyperlink like launching of apps

[0]HN, Reddit, and Tumblr are the exceptions for me. I have notifications off and those platforms tend to invite more nuanced discussions and be less distracting over all

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#205

Post by mghackerlady » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 7:37 PM UTC

Aldipower wrote: post #183

nicbou wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying, but it's so hard! I put my phone in a drawer. Everything's in silent mode. I have a fully disconnected, distraction-free iPad for reading and writing. Work only happens on the computer. There are no emails on the phone. Yet, I can't fully disconnect. Every device, every account, every app mixes work stuff and personal life stuff. And software is so sticky! I can't just check one thing without my attention…

I learned to hate smartphones, so I threw it literally away. People can write me an email or call me on my landline. On the desktop I am using Debian with WindowMaker. This is enjoyably distraction free. I am a free man.

One of these days I'm going to get an old thinkpad, install OpenBSD on it, and switch the majority of my computing to TUI programs. Lynx renders websites remarkably well and keeps me away from the seedy stripmall the internet of today is. Perhaps I'll start posting on Usenet, I hear there are at least a few people still there

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#206

Post by red-iron-pine » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 7:59 PM UTC

ecb_penguin wrote: post #107

ryuhhnn wrote: post #16

Some very important context that the researchers don't mention: during the same period that they are claiming test scores improved because of phone bans, Florida changed the way they administer standardised tests. Starting in 2024, they switched from doing one end-of-year assessment and started administering more frequent tests throughout the year in order to better gauge a student's progress and provide a tighter fe…

This was controlled for in the study. I swear sometimes people only exist to look for flaws in studies they didn't read.

the general shit quality and lack of reproducibility means that, for many studies, internet punters can spout that shit and chances are its right.

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#207

Post by ErroneousBosh » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 8:35 PM UTC

stonemetal12 wrote: post #29

aschla wrote: post #3

I'm not particularly old yet, in my mid-thirties, but I reacted like someone much older when I learned kids are allowed to carry around their phones all day at school. Back in my day (when we walked to school uphill both ways), we weren't allowed to carry around basic flip phones. They had to be in our locker and only used before or after school. When and why did it become acceptable for much more distracting and sti…

Never. There has never been a time when it was OK to use a phone in class. What happened is A) Some kids do take their phone out and play with them and either get caught or not B) Something happens and kids record it aka school fight videos. C) giant moral panic that has very little basis in reality.

> B) Something happens and kids record it aka school fight videos.

A friend's kid got in a small amount of trouble for something along these lines. He was "present at but not involved in" a fight at school, where some of the other kids were shooting it on their phones.

Then one of the teachers came round the corner to break it up and take the guilty parties off to the headmaster's office.

My mate's son, kind of similar thinker to his dad, clever guy, bit of a windup merchant, sprung into action.

"OKAY, CUT! Right, you and you - " pointing at the antagonists " - reset please, everyone else places right now please, " and rounds on the teacher "... and you can be here but you have to be out of my shot."

There's no way to prove they weren't trying to make a film. There was a note home from the school that basically said "We know he's at it, we just can't prove he's at it, but we do know that he's not going to do that again, right?"

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#208

Post by nomel » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 8:36 PM UTC

mavhc wrote: post #167

nomel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPads are required in some public school classrooms, in place of textbooks! There no "lockdown mode" that the teacher can enable, to lock to the apps/websites related to the lesson. It's INSANE.

Apple's Classroom says it allows locking to a single app https://apps.apple.com/us/app/classroom/id1085319084

Then it can't work. Textbook, website for the problems, notes app, etc. Multitasking is required when the answers are input online (which is a problem itself).

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#209

Post by inglor_cz » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 9:58 PM UTC

mghackerlady wrote: post #200

inglor_cz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be a massive confounding factor in the type of alcohol consumed. The more permissive cultures tend to be beer- or wine-centric. I have never been deeply interested in addictology, but the few (older) works on alcoholism I have read mentioned that beer and wine drinkers tend to develop a different sort of relationship with alcohol than hard drink consuments, in the sense that they have a hard time abstaining…

I disagree. You see less depictions of beer or wine addicts despite them (at least from my experience) making up the majority of high-functioning alcoholics. I don't know for sure why they're depicted less, but my running theory is a combination of not being tragic enough for drama focused on alcoholism and being played for jokes with things like the "wine mom" stereotype. They also tend to be a lot better at hiding…

"high-functioning alcoholics"

That's the crux of the situation, though; on hard liquor, the slippery road to becoming a non-functional alcoholic is much steeper.

There also might be a gender difference. In my experience, men who drink wine, mostly drink with friends and self-limit. The sort of men who are prone to alcoholism won't be satisfied by mere wine and will proceed to hard drinks quick. On the other hand, women often drink wine alone and might develop a daily habit that degrades into full-blown alcoholism even without resorting to hard drinks.

FYI, I barely drink at all and I dislike sloshed people (incl. myself when I rarely get intoxicated; it is an unpleasant state to be in). But even hell has layers.

Re: School cell phone bans and student achievement

#210

Post by protocolture » Wed, Dec 03, 2025, 10:59 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #146

protocolture wrote: post #70

Correlation/Causation issues as others have pointed out. But also, complete inability of schools to adapt. Refusing to adapt to the reality that is, students will be living their entire lives with these devices, and that they should be working out ways to ensure student productivity despite their existence, is not the same thing as success. Teachers are inherently lazy. Its one of their more human qualities. But real…

Perhaps I'm just lacking in imagination, but I'm not sure how having smartphones in class meaningfully enhances the educational experience. I could see a tablet for note-taking being useful, perhaps. (Or a more limited device like a Remarkable, which IIRC isn't a general-purpose touchscreen computer.) Kids can prepare to live in a world with these things in their pockets outside of school. Sure, primary school is abo…

>Perhaps I'm just lacking in imagination, but I'm not sure how having smartphones in class meaningfully enhances the educational experience.

It doesnt unless a teacher can meaningfully incorporate and teach to smart phone users.

>Kids can prepare to live in a world with these things in their pockets outside of school.

Kids can meaningfully prepare for their entire lives without school. But school is designed to meaningfully prepare them for their adult lives, so if you inflict a school upon a child you should hope that it would, try somewhat to prepare them for their adult lives which will undoubtedly include smart phones. I remember hearing similar complaints when laptops were being handed out, and now in parts they are mandatory. Adults without basic computer skills were at a heavy disadvantage in the workplace. At least universities are stepping up, and forcing phones into classrooms for MFA.

>I think it's fair to make the call that the distraction caused by smartphones (especially with all the apps designed to addict users) outweighs any positive teachable moments with them present.

If kids are distracted, they aren't being meaningfully engaged. It should be seen as a litmus test for quality educators.

>Maybe your classmate just didn't care about math, but enjoyed English and reading, and found that much more engaging.

That english teacher was a former national AFL coach who was exceedingly good at educating difficult kids. When he retired, he had several wayward kids who graduated based on his impact on their education breaking down in tears. He definitely made an effort. He used a lot of peer to peer communication styles rather than falling back on more authoritative methods.

Writing off some kids as simply disinterested in some subjects is specifically the laziness I was referring to.

>That's really the big flaw here. If he hadn't been able to do that, his grades would suffer, and someone, whether the teacher or his parents, would have (hopefully!) stepped in to see what was going on, and find a way to curb his game-playing in class.

He failed or scraped past most of his math assessments, kid had money and trauma. Winning combo at a private school.

>I know quite a few teachers, and calling teachers lazy is so mind-blowingly, disrespectfully inaccurate that it's really hard to take your opinions seriously. Sure, in every walk of life you'll find lazy people, but I see no evidence that teachers are on average lazier than people in any other profession. My take on it is that teachers might be on average less lazy than your average human.

All you have to do is ask them to adapt, and you will get a massive bucket full of excuses and finger pointing.