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Orion 1.0

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Orion 1.0

#201

Post by sedatk »

0_gravitas wrote: post #180
sedatk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, the prioritization just looks counter-intuitive to me, especially if you make money primarily from subscribers.

Well, paying money for consumer apps/services (besides games) has always seemed a bit more normalized in the iOS ecosystem, and I imagine it must be a _somewhat_ simpler interface than the lovecruftian monolith of windows-N saying this as a Linux user, I've never owned an apple device in my life (nor do I want to)

AFAIK, you can't pay for Kagi in Apple ecosystem. Users of both platforms have to visit their web page.

Re: Orion 1.0

#202

Post by jorl17 »

nwienert wrote: post #195
jorl17 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried Orion a couple of times. I even used it as my default browser for ~3 months about two years ago. Most recently, I tried to use it again about 2 months ago, but it still had loads of bugs and, most of all, was painfully slow. The truth is, Orion being based off of WebKit comes with the obvious limitation that....it's based off of WebKit! So much slower than chrome or firefox, and plagued with decisions that…

WebKit is not slower than Chrome/FF, this is just plain wrong, they tend to trade off over the years and over the last 5 years WebKit spent much of the time on top of a significant amount of the benchmarks people care about. It's also by far the most resource efficient, especially on Mac, though Chrome invested heavily more recently to close the gap. Overall in terms of "feel", Safari is hands down the best browser i…

Maybe it's a matter of the websites I use and my specific usage patterns.

I've used many browsers throughout the years: Chrome, Safari, Firefox, Arc, Zen, Orion. For many years I ran safari because it was so energy-efficient and the integration was absolutely great. I would LOVE to get back to safari!...

For my usage patterns, though, Safari is noticeably slower and much more sluggish. I can't really put it any other way.

Things that are pretty terrible for me in Safari: YouYube, Google Docs, GitHub diff viewer, just to name a few. Safari was also noticeably terrible on pages that do HTML animations via JS and not CSS (they shouldn't do it, but they do, and I can instantly tell on Safari).

I will add that although I did have Safari as my main browser several years ago, it was never for its speed. It felt "OK" in terms of speed (a bit slower, but not too noticeable back then), but it felt AMAZING in terms of better life and OS integration.

Re: Orion 1.0

#203

Post by freeandclear »

have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

It is definitely the features that draw me to trying new browsers. The difference in a few milliseconds is not a big deal to me.

Re: Orion 1.0

#204

Post by TrevorFSmith »

I'm a happy Kagi subscriber and look forward to Orion on Linux. Every well supported browser other than Chrome is a win. I'd love Kagi to fund people working full time on web standards in the W3C and WHATNG, too.

Re: Orion 1.0

#205

Post by inesranzo »

0_gravitas wrote: post #186
inesranzo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the people who are asking for Orion to be open source are not paying for it. I think a blog post on Orion's transparency is enough. The fact that there is Orion+ is enough to warrant no need to have tracking or 'enshittification'. If you like Kagi and Orion, supporting development by paying for it makes sense. Open sourcing everything of Orion means that Orion+ will be open source which defeats the point…

> I'm assuming the people who are asking for Orion to be open source are not paying for it. I think this is an odd/slightly-disingenuous statement. I mean, I'm on linux, so I'm not, I'm happily paying for kagi though, and would pay for Orion+ if it was available to me :) I would also very much like it if Orion was open source, it would make me feel a lot better committing to and recommending a browser if I had actual…

> I would also very much like it if Orion was open source, it would make me feel a lot better committing to and recommending a browser if I had actual assurances it's behaving appropriately, beyond a company saying "trust me", no matter how nice/cool they seem at the time.

Kagi isn't 100% open source but you still use it and recommend it?

How do you know they aren't spying on the backend?

Re: Orion 1.0

#206

Post by freeandclear »

rdg1991 wrote: post #61

I love Orion, but it's pretty unusable with 1Password set up - delay on keyboard input is unbearable with the extension enabled and it slows everything down significantly. I just ran a few benchmarks with BrowserBench Speedometer: 1Password extension disabled: 17 1Password extension enabled: 10 (and the test takes much longer) Vivaldi with extension enabled: 25 I really, really want to move back to Orion as my daily…

since there is so much in common with safari, i hope that the devs will port them over as proper extensions with support

Re: Orion 1.0

#207

Post by ajdude »

traceroute66 wrote: post #131

So, the blog post says: > Because something fundamental has been lost. > Zero telemetry, privacy‑first access to the internet: a basic human right. > We believe there needs to be a different path: a browser that answers only to its user. So basically they have just re-invented Firefox Focus and/or Mullvad Browser ? Disable Daily Ping and Crash Reports in Firefox Focus and you too have a telemetry-free browser on iOS.…

I dropped firefox 9 months so after they updated their privacy policy and removed "we don't sell your data" from their FAQ.

Besides, it doesn't seem like I'm able to install sponsorblock, ublockock origin etc on iOS firefox. I love using sponsorblock and several other add-ons from both Mazzella in chrome in Orion on my phone.

Re: Orion 1.0

#208

Post by whamlastxmas »

I wish it touched on its approach to very common finger printing data. Does it send browser window size? Your time zone? Your OS? The languages you've previously chosen to translate?

Unless it meaningfully closes the loop on not sending data to fingerprint with, I'm not sure "zero telemetry" is really a selling point at all

Re: Orion 1.0

#209

Post by nicce »

sedatk wrote: post #148
z64 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I work at Kagi, but do not work on Orion) There's a lot of different reasons that people ask for open sourcing of Orion / software in general; could I ask you to expand a bit more as to which issues being open source would address for you? I can assume of course, but I'd rather listen to you articulate it, even if it's usual reasons.

In return, could we ask Kagi to expand on which problems they find in open sourcing it?

Business model from Orion+ would likely take a hit in the long run.

Re: Orion 1.0

#210

Post by cosmosgenius »

z64 wrote: post #77
luma wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single word answer: trust. Y’all seem like nice people but trust isn’t automatic these days.

Trust with regards to...? Orion doesn't have any telemetry, doesn't force any updates on you, doesn't require any account. You can audit the application's behavior with standard tools to verify that it isn't "phoning home", etc., it doesn't need to be open source to do that, nor would making it open source obviate auditig the final executable anyways. What do you perceive as the risk to "trusting" Orion in this case?…

Browser handling is way more personal than any other piece of software. It need not be open source licensed but being able to compile and install it from source the exact binary (minus signing) is a huge plus is today's world. Otherwise is "not" doing much from chrome, brave, firefox etc of today. Open source would be cherry on top.

Trust of Kagi search is already there w.r.t both the tool and the company but it is not transferable to Trust to the Orion Browser.

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