Pebble Watch software is now open source • Hacker News Board

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#201

Post by thoroughburro » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 1:04 PM UTC

jamesbelchamber wrote: post #183

infotainment wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like Rebble (the board) really overplayed their hand. From what they posted, it seems like they wanted more control over what Core was doing, deciding that the best way to do that was to try and hold the app store data hostage. Now, with the Core app open sourced and multiple app store repos supported, Rebble's position will likely be greatly diminished from what it could have been if they had been satisfied…

I spent some time on their Discord chatting and trying to nudge them towards a healthier approach. Many of them seem to think that PebbleOS was released just for them (they quote the Google press release), and so reading between the lines I really do think they feel at some level that code has been "stolen" from them. Which is ridiculous (and I said so) but if they think it's true then it explains their actions much…

> they've been powering through the five stages of grief in coming to terms with that

If only! They trashed their reputation by lashing out at their own misapprehensions.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#202

Post by jrmg » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 1:12 PM UTC

mid-kid wrote: post #99

For some of us software freedom enthusiasts it is worth noting that PebbleOS contains some proprietary blobs for some peripherals in the watch[1]. This is not just firmware you upload to the peripheral but also properietary .a libraries that run on the main core. Though to be fair to OpenDevices, this is source code they don't have acces to either. [1]: https://github.com/coredevices/pebbleos-nonfree/tree/57a94e2...

Hardware and software are fungible.

Do you demand circuit schematics? Hardware description language source code for all the ICs? Does it matter if it’s a FPGA vs a custom IC? What about CAD files for the industrial design - some of that is ‘functional’ (camera lenses and antennas being obvious examples).

If you don’t require hardware description language source or circuit schematics, does your position change if it’s a microcontroller with firmware? The functionality could be outwardly identical to a fully ‘hardware’ IC or FPGA, down to pinout and timing (see, for example, the many projects ‘cloning’ obsolete and unavailable custom ICs with microcontrollers in the retrocomputing field).

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#203

Post by kchr » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 1:26 PM UTC

0xEF wrote: post #179

user3939382 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read Reflections on Trusting Trust to understand why having little bits of binary blobs sprinkled all over your compute arch is actually a major problem. Just because it’s a hard problem doesn’t mean we’re gonna pretend it’s fine.

PDF link for those that are curious: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_Ref... The general sentiment is that you cannot trust code you did not write yourself and that we need to be able to trust the person who did, but you can form your own conclusions about how that fits into the modern tech landscape.

One of the points made in that paper is that you can't even trust the compiler, even if you write the code yourself. I think this is one of the stronger points as it shows you it is unfeasible to require everybody to audit all source code before running it. Be pragmatic, know your threat model, decide who you trust and move on with more important things in your life.

Full disclosure: am free software advocate.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#204

Post by kchr » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 1:30 PM UTC

gf000 wrote: post #147

paxcoder wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So not 100% open source. Thanks for the info

Above a certain complexity, there is basically no 100% open-source hardware out there. Like none of the Pinephone, Librem, Framework laptops are "open-source" to the bone.

> Above a certain complexity, there is basically no 100% open-source hardware out there. > > Like none of the Pinephone, Librem, Framework laptops are "open-source" to the bone.

As an aside, GNU Librephone aims to rectify that by reverse-engineering those blobs and develop their own firmware for baseband chips etc. But I am carefully optimistic about the success since it is a relatively new project and quite a moonshot, even though I would personally stand first in line to buy one if it would materialize.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#205

Post by k1musab1 » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 1:47 PM UTC

mkhalil wrote: post #69

I'm sure its happened before, but this is the first time i finally get to see some sort of modern hardware in KiCad. Pretty cool to see all 6 layers, paste layers, and adhesive layers as well. I've always wondered how the cake was made and if big projects do/could use KiCad. Seems like a lot more work relative to those Single Layer PCBs on YouTube for things like emulators and custom PCBs. Glad I now know for sure, t…

The Reform laptop project is open hardware: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform

I encourage you to browse it, I found that while challenging, it does not seem unreachable to get to that level of proficiency in KiCad.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#206

Post by cdibona » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 1:59 PM UTC

leo_e wrote: post #199

As someone dealing with open-source compliance in distributed systems, the purity tests in these comments are exhausting. Hardware is messy. IP licensing for sensors and radios is a nightmare. Getting a functional OS out with "only" a few binary blobs is a massive engineering and legal victory. I'd rather have a working, 95% open ecosystem that I can actually hack on, than a 100% pure theoretical one that never ships…

The closest we got to a fully open source android release was probably in the Nexus one days with some 9 proprietary blobs and , worse, user space support programs (IIRC the compass calibration routines, annoyingly.) , all for various chip/radio support.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#207

Post by keraf » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

Apart from all the awesome annoucements, what really makes me happy is how quickly this went from internet drama to both parties moving towards doing whats best for the community.

Props to Core and Rebble for making Pebble what it is today and casting a bright future for theses watches. Been happily wearing my Pebble Steel for the past month after replacing its battery, looking forward to the PT2!

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#208

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 2:43 PM UTC

bytesandbits wrote: post #188

mid-kid wrote: post #99

For some of us software freedom enthusiasts it is worth noting that PebbleOS contains some proprietary blobs for some peripherals in the watch[1]. This is not just firmware you upload to the peripheral but also properietary .a libraries that run on the main core. Though to be fair to OpenDevices, this is source code they don't have acces to either. [1]: https://github.com/coredevices/pebbleos-nonfree/tree/57a94e2...

By that reasoning the linux kernel is also not open source. Be reasonable.

[deleted]

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#209

Post by carlosjobim » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 2:51 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #169

paxcoder wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So not 100% open source. Thanks for the info

Incidentally, this is one reason why there's not so much open source hardware out there: people get pedantic about it and apply gradually more unreasonable levels of requirement, rather than accepting partially or substantially open source solutions.

FOSS enthusiasts are the worst customers imaginable. Not only are they pedantic to the absurd levels you mention, they are also political extremists and will start a witch hunt unless you and your entire company does exactly as they say in every matter imaginable.

And worst of all: They are incredibly cheap and don't want to spend any of their money on high quality products or services. Scream at every dollar they have to spend. "I'm better off with this hand-me-down computer that my sister gave me when her office job upgraded machines".

Trying to please FOSS people is like opening a five star budget restaurant for people with complicated allergies. You're going to deal with the worst of humanity and go broke in the process.

Re: Pebble Watch software is now open source

#210

Post by micromacrofoot » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #16

modeless wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important thing is that all the code written by Core Devices is open source. They can't force third parties to open their code, but they're opening all of their own work. And that proprietary code is not required to use the watches. Most of them don't even have heart rate sensors, and clearly Memfault is not required. They're committing to maintaining a 100% open source version that still allows you to use the wa…

Then say "Pebble Watch Software written by Core Devices Is Now 100% Open Source", or "Pebble mobile app open sourced" (that seems to be the major actual change?), or something like that. The thing they've actually done should be commended, but that doesn't mean ignoring that they've chosen to make a claim in the headline that isn't actually true.

I understand the desire for more literal communication, but it's not the world we live in