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Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

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Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#201

Post by netcan »

jlgreco wrote: post #154
TeMPOraL wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> relies on > (...) > their datacenter > their website software This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.

(I think the traditional wording of the phrase is a tad harsh, but..) I think it is a case of "When you really love your hammer, everything looks like a nail."

I like analogies that aren't necessarily dismissive.

How about If you're a carpenter, you tend to make things out of wood."

You can make a lot of stuff out of wood, if you're good. You need relatively few general purpose tools. It's not always the best, but in many cases it's good enough. The first Apple had a wooden body. Early cars too.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#202

Post by netcan »

jlgreco wrote: post #154
TeMPOraL wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> relies on > (...) > their datacenter > their website software This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.

(I think the traditional wording of the phrase is a tad harsh, but..) I think it is a case of "When you really love your hammer, everything looks like a nail."

I like analogies that aren't necessarily dismissive.

How about If you're a carpenter, you tend to make things out of wood."

You can make a lot of stuff out of wood, if you're good. You need relatively few general purpose tools. It's not always the best, but in many cases it's good enough. The first Apple had a wooden body. Early cars too.

Technology is giving us a lot of stuff which we call "tools" but we might also call "materials." Like physical tools and materials, they all take time to learn and much longer to understand well. Sometimes we use chisels & planks when welding pipes or casting iron would be better because we have a woodworking setup in the garage.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#203

Post by tripzilch »

mbreese wrote: post #160
run4yourlives wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, there are probably hundreds of locksmiths in your city right now that could gain access to your front door in a matter of seconds. Given the portability of the device, it's doubtful that lockitron even knows what it's unlocking at any given time.

While a trained locksmith could probably get past my deadbolt, a random hacker from $current_unpopular_country can't. (Note: this isn't counting non-locksmiths that can also pick a lock). So, using something like this does carry a bigger (if slight) risk. I'm not sure if I'd necessarily trust a relatively new company with controlling my deadbolt. Then again, I also have a similar setup using an HID tag reader/arduino…

Hey, some of my best friends are from $current_unpopular_country!!

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#204

Post by tripzilch »

veemjeem wrote: post #74
trotsky wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldn't it be more like why make a coal driven steam engine when diesel models had been out for 30 years?

I don't understand why you're so negative. It's a new product that has new benefits, and new drawbacks. The same could be said about the calculator when it first came out. You couldn't even compute logarithms on the first calculator model, but the slide rule had no problems. Most people were faster using the slide rule so it felt like the calculator was a backwards technological progression. Should we try to innovate…

Great example. While the calculator is a great invention, it's also caused many people over two generations of not being able to perform simple arithmetic in their head. Of course, we're hackers and we try to keep our minds fresh by doing simple tricks such as calculating the total value on the receipt before checkout (or the ubiquitous 35% off stickers a certain Dutch supermarket has)--don't we ;) And almost nobody knows how to use a slide rule any more.

And while that's sad, it doesn't make the calculator less great.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#205

Post by tripzilch »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #180
TeMPOraL wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> relies on > (...) > their datacenter > their website software This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.

How do I tell it to let my cousin Bob in who just texted me saying he's in town for a conference and wants to meet while I'm at work? The device has BT4, but that doesn't mean there is no value in the wifi.

Personally I'd feel more in control if I could text him a special code to get in, than by remotely locking or unlocking my doors.

Remotely unlocking my doors? I feel unsafe already from the mere idea :) :) It'd be different for an office but there's an emotional thing with my home, I'd just be worried. If I lock it again, maybe the door was ajar and it couldn't lock? But I can't see because I'm not there!

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#206

Post by MicahWedemeyer »

I installed a punch code deadbolt on our front door. It has been a life-changing experience. I need neither phone nor keys and never worry about being locked out. I just have to replace the batteries every couple years.

One of the biggest improvements, not offered by the Lockitron, is the lack of needing to fumble in your pockets for anything. If you've got a handful of groceries, it's much easier to shift a bag or two to get a hand free and punch the code than it is to go digging in your pockets.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#207

Post by runaway »

MicahWedemeyer wrote: post #206

I installed a punch code deadbolt on our front door. It has been a life-changing experience. I need neither phone nor keys and never worry about being locked out. I just have to replace the batteries every couple years. One of the biggest improvements, not offered by the Lockitron, is the lack of needing to fumble in your pockets for anything. If you've got a handful of groceries, it's much easier to shift a bag or t…

> One of the biggest improvements, not offered by the Lockitron, is the lack of needing to fumble in your pockets for anything

Did you watch the full video? This version of Lockitron has proximity-based keyless entry like some cars do. No need to reach into your pockets or punch in a code.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#208

Post by Charles__L »

eggbrain wrote: post #61
trotsky wrote: post #21

relies on your phone working 2.4 Ghz your internet connection your power their datacenter their website software to avoid carrying a key? anyone in the area could easily ddos off your wireless more or less permanently by spamming disconnect. doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me. whats the problem with a more traditional (read local) keyless approach? door too thick?

Why use a car? Relies on: Gas to run You making sure everything is well maintained Expensive vs biking Auto mechanics needed if your car breaks down Anyone in your area could easily steal your car or explode it rendering it useless. Doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me. Kidding aside, you must not have read very carefully, since it has NFC and Bluetooth as backups. The DDOS scenario would require a t…

Yes, but what are ways it is possible to break into a car? Break a window (drawback: sets off a car alarm)

Duplicate the a key (drawback: requires original key) Steal car when open (drawback: not many people leave there car open)

How could you break in a key

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#209

Post by Simucal »

MicahWedemeyer wrote: post #206

I installed a punch code deadbolt on our front door. It has been a life-changing experience. I need neither phone nor keys and never worry about being locked out. I just have to replace the batteries every couple years. One of the biggest improvements, not offered by the Lockitron, is the lack of needing to fumble in your pockets for anything. If you've got a handful of groceries, it's much easier to shift a bag or t…

Near the end of the video they demonstrate their newest feature: automatic proximity unlocking via BT 4.0. So in the "hands occupied by groceries" scenario you described, using the Lockitron would be even easier than a punch code.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#210

Post by alexsb92 »

rdl wrote: post #110
larrys wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Empirically people are a lot less likely to forget their phone than to forget keys," That also varies on whether you drive a car or take public transportation. If you drive, leaving your house requires taking your keys and it becomes a habit. Same with leaving work. If you drove there you need your keys to leave. A good way around forgetting keys also is a realtor style lockbox either on the door or hidden with a sp…

Yeah, I forget my phone way more than I forget keys, because I need the keys to open (NFC/HID) the door to the garage and to use the car. I use a deadbolt so I can't lock myself out of the apartment, but also can't go into the garage without keys, and I ~never go out the front door. I end up leaving my phone docked in my car about 10% of the time by accident, though. The key (heh) to not forgetting anything, though,…

Ever since I discovered the keep-things-in-the-same-pocket trick a few years back, the number of times I forget stuff at home got to virtually zero. When it's time to leave, all I have to do is slap all of my pockets to get a feel for what's in them, and that's it I'm done.

Regarding the different pocket layout, I've also limited myself to just using the main ones for my day to day stuff, so two front and two back. Though when i wear cargo pants or shorts I do put my wallet on the pocket halfway my leg as it's more comfortable with sitting.

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