Live data from Hacker News

Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

bbc.com

201–210 of 216 posts

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#201
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it crazy? Clearly the value is the proof itself, not the item, right? Certainly a genuine da Vinci is an investment you can very likely recoup and make a profit on. If I could buy one that’s proven, for a million, and I had a million sitting around, I would. That would be a smart move. The $30k non da Vinci, who knows, could be everything from love of art and total loss to perhaps a small profit. It depends on how…

I'm not interested in speculating on art. It's far too risky for my taste. There's always a high risk of them being counterfeits. Verification by even top experts is pretty chancy.

Oh I agree with you there 100%. That’s a different issue than having no proof at all, or no claim or story, right?

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all a great way of describing why art works as a money laundering or tax evasion scheme.

Can you elaborate further on the tax evasion part? The money laundering part I can see since the value of art is subjective and volatile, but how does what OP said explain how art can be used for tax evasion?

[deleted]

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#203
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehe, I like it. Yeah that’s a valid, if funny and tautological way to summarize it. I am arguing that the monetary value comes from the story attached something that’s unique, historical, famous, etc. The artifact itself didn’t change value when it was proven to be a da Vinci, a new and very valuable story was attached to it. Without the story/proof it really is worth less.

Yes but there has to be some kind of self-reinforcing circularity to the value of that story, or the price of a da Vinci would be roughly inflationary or even under it and therefore not a good investment. Da Vinci's story isn't substantially changing (and doesn't even have a bunch of aging, rich, nostalgic people at exactly the right age-wealth point relative to the material in question to drive prices like Superman)…

Sure the claim that an artifact like a painting is valuable because it’s rare & famous is somewhat self-reinforcing, I agree. I also think it’s fair to call it circular in the sense that people investing and making a profit when they re-sell will cause more people to want to invest, and will drive the prices of collectibles higher. The value of a collectible is a social construct rather than a reflection of, say, skill or materials or cost to make, and so normal economics doesn’t really apply.

I’m not quite following the rest of your logic. Rare collectibles don’t often lose value after 70 years, there’s no reason I know of to suspect the ‘age-wealth point’ of the collector is particularly relevant. I’ve never heard of historicity nor seen anything collectible accrue value as a percentage of age, I don’t think markets for rare paintings work like that…? The idea of paying millions and millions for a collectible you can’t really use is foreign to most of us, so yeah it’s really weird and I can understand the feeling that it must be self-reinforcing.

I guess I’m maybe not even arguing for or against any of this, but maybe saying that given that markets for rare things exist, it does make sense that very rare+famous things bring higher prices, and that people who have money for this kind of speculation might see investment opportunity. I agree the “value” and market for these things is circular. All of the value comes from the “proof” that something is rare and collectible, purely from the story.

All this does apply a little bit to consumer goods, of course. We often have to remind ourselves that capitalist markets price things according to supply and demand, not necessarily to cost.

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#204

I have a b&w photo of my (considerably) older brother, from the early 1960s, reading a pile of comic books a foot high. The only cover visible is Spiderman #4. When I was a kid I used to stare at that picture and dream. Needless to say, I kept all my old comics.

I use to collect baseball cards as a kid in the 80s and I can remember I would see comics at card shows.

I had seen football cards take off in value and really wanted to get into comic collecting. What I remember is the big comic books were just slightly outside the price range of a 10 year old cutting the lawn. Unlike baseball cards that cost thousands for HOF rookie cards.

I don't know how accurate it is but chatGPT gives prices that sound about right from what I remember looking at comic price guides in the 80s.

X-Men #1 $60–$150

The Incredible Hulk #1 $60–$120

Avengers #1 $80–$180

I never got to start my collection then I remember as a teenager thinking what a stupid idea it was anyway. Who the hell is ever going to be that into comic book characters?

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#205

Found a bit more on the story behind this copy https://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news...

Funny how the time of day affects the visibility of posting on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46002609 :)

> Funny how the time of day affects the visibility of posting

I have had that happen multiple times as well, but those are usually the ones I posted because I am interested in the thoughtful/knowledgeable comments that happen -- so it works out either way. I assume it's because my main source being BBC -- even though the website has a good variety of interesting (non-headline news) content that is well sourced/linked -- but also because I usually end up posting during odd/off-hours for US central. Think most of the ones I post that gain any traction had ended up in the 2nd chance pool.

This one was a bit of an anomaly for me on how quickly it picked up -- personally thought the one I posted before it was a little more interesting about Rolls-Royce finding ways to limit sand/dust from damaging jet-engines, but this here is Superman after all

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#206
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but there has to be some kind of self-reinforcing circularity to the value of that story, or the price of a da Vinci would be roughly inflationary or even under it and therefore not a good investment. Da Vinci's story isn't substantially changing (and doesn't even have a bunch of aging, rich, nostalgic people at exactly the right age-wealth point relative to the material in question to drive prices like Superman)…

Sure the claim that an artifact like a painting is valuable because it’s rare & famous is somewhat self-reinforcing, I agree. I also think it’s fair to call it circular in the sense that people investing and making a profit when they re-sell will cause more people to want to invest, and will drive the prices of collectibles higher. The value of a collectible is a social construct rather than a reflection of, say, ski…

> there’s no reason I know of to suspect the ‘age-wealth point’ of the collector is particularly relevant.

All I mean is I think there's a bump around the time something particularly nostalgic intersects enough of the nostalgia-havers getting rich enough to bootstrap somes things into valuable-because-valuable territory. Comics, movies, etc. You could explain some of this Superman price that way, but you can't explain a recent increase in da Vincis, for example. I suspect quite at lot of 5/6 figure comic book sales that then bump the magic-number editions into the millions are buoyed by people who have done fondness for comics they had as children.

On the other hand, I think that eventually "the story" is merely an excuse for the price and whatever it is just valuable for the sake of being a member of a class of items that are demonstrably unique, irreplaceable and that can have particularly useful properties as a store of immense value. I really doubt that an Saudi prince dropping half a billion on a da Vinci, probably fronting for MBS, really gives a hoot about da Vinci's "story" at all other then his name underpins a really advantageous wealth store. I also doubt anyone else who might pay that and support the price does either.

There's an established, global industry based around curating what does and doesn't "count" for these purposes. NFTs obviously have massive parallels with paintings and comic editions in terms of provable uniqueness, attestable sale prices and clear ownership, but failed to convince the curators and break into the stratospheric market where it actually makes sense to assign value-due-to-value. Perhaps partly because proving the above points isn't a fully public process, but it's itself carefully gated by physical access and social connections.

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salvator mundi was bought at an auction for $1.2k, restored & appraised, then eventually sold for $450 million. The art/collection world is fascinate everything latches onto experts putting their reputation on the line, precious metals and gem stones make way more sense to me as their authenticity is undeniable for now

Weirdly enough, precious metals and gem stones are only valuable because we agree they are. It's exactly the same as art, but with a lot less debate.

Same thing with time ...

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#208
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual, generalising all of Europe based on your individual country is a mistake as there are some Euro counties where comics are quite popular. France, Belgium, Italy and the UK all have thriving native comic book industries, and I have Swedish friends who tell me Donald Duck comics are very popular there. I imagine a pristine 1st edition Tintin or Asterix would be quite valuable.

I wouldn't say comics are really popular in France. But we may have different interpretations of what comics are, as I don't consider "bandes dessinées" (e.g. Tintin) as comics.

As an avid reader of BDs, I would agree with you, but for the purpose of this discussion, and for the general public, these two are indistinguishable. Even to the actual translation, which is (pardon my rusty French) somewhere in the ballpark of "cartoon strips".

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all a great way of describing why art works as a money laundering or tax evasion scheme.

Can you elaborate further on the tax evasion part? The money laundering part I can see since the value of art is subjective and volatile, but how does what OP said explain how art can be used for tax evasion?

The artwork is then given to a museum as a charitable donation for a tax write-off, or so the story goes.

Re: Original Superman comic becomes the highest-priced comic book ever sold

#210

I remember a painting was discovered, and there was speculation that it was a da Vinci. It was appraised at $30,000. If it could be proven to be a da Vinci, it would be worth a million. For the same item. Crazy.

Isnt it just cause more people want to own a da Vinci than a non-da Vinci, so therefore the price goes higher cause more people are willing to outbid the other?
Post reply on HN