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.NET 10

devblogs.microsoft.com

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201–210 of 605 posts

Re: .NET 10

#201

Post by jve »

formerly_proven wrote: post #134
ethin wrote: post #129

How is .NET debugging on the command line? I don't use IDEs that often and last time I tried making something serious with .NET I couldn't find any kind of reliable debugger that I could just spin up and get to grips with. And I wasn't exactly very keen on switching from VS build tools to full VS just to debug .NET apps.

Isn't the official .NET debugger only allowed to be used from Visual Studio and VSC? I recall Jetbrains had to remove debugging support from their IDE for a while due to that license. Also the whole kerfuffle around hot reloading first being added to .NET (Core) and then the code being deleted because it was supposed to be a VS-only feature. These things to me seem like one faction in MSFT wants .NET to be an open pl…

There is WinDbg which can debug CLR code, but that is Windows only.

Re: .NET 10

#202

Post by OkGoDoIt »

igravious wrote: post #137

Anybody remember IronPython, IronRuby, etc?

I do! Pretty sad that IronPython isn’t a thing anymore, especially now that I’ve actually had to learn Python for machine-learning related reasons. At least .net did get the dynamic data type out of its brief interest in these.

Re: .NET 10

#203

Post by 4rt »

cachius wrote: post #164
paride5745 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this point. Go and Rust produce native binaries, I wish C# had an official native compiler without the big runtime needs of .Net.

You might want to read https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/nati... Publishing your app as Native AOT produces an app that's self-contained and that has been ahead-of-time (AOT) compiled to native code. Native AOT apps have faster startup time and smaller memory footprints. These apps can run on machines that don't have the .NET runtime installed.

They're self contained and native, but they're still massive.

There's been some work on CoreRT and a general thrust to remove all dependencies on any reflection (so that all metadata can be stripped) and to get tree-shaking working (e.g. in Blazor WASM).

It seems like in general they're going in this direction.

Re: .NET 10

#204

Post by atraac »

masfoobar wrote: post #139
jitbit wrote: post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

I think the "confusing" aspect with C#, being part of the Microsoft eco-system, is that there are many smaller companies (and startups) that may have concern paying for such tools. To the uneducated, C# is linked to Visual Studio.. the IDE.. and the Community edition if free as long as you are a student, open-source, and individuals. Professional and Enterprise are paid. (Yes - there is Visual Studio Code) Again, I a…

  > To the uneducated, C# is linked to Visual Studio.. the IDE.. and the Community edition if free as long as you are a student, open-source, and individuals. Professional and Enterprise are paid.
No it's not. What? Visual Studio is a shitty MS product that most decent C# devs already moved away from to JetBrains/vscode.

  > Need a database - should it be SQL Server? Should it be Windows Servers? etc.
.NET runs on Linux just fine, there's also zero issues using Postgres or any other popular DB of your choice.

  > there are many smaller companies (and startups) that may have concern paying for such tools.
There's literally nothing you would need to pay to work in .NET ecosystem. If a company rules out a language based on thoughts like yours, I genuinely believe they deserve to fail. Literally none of those things is true and it takes a minute or two to find all of that out.

Re: .NET 10

#205

Post by skeeter2020 »

cachius wrote: post #164
paride5745 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this point. Go and Rust produce native binaries, I wish C# had an official native compiler without the big runtime needs of .Net.

You might want to read https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/nati... Publishing your app as Native AOT produces an app that's self-contained and that has been ahead-of-time (AOT) compiled to native code. Native AOT apps have faster startup time and smaller memory footprints. These apps can run on machines that don't have the .NET runtime installed.

There are quite a few gotchas for this, especially web apps. THis is understandable because it was added after the fact, vs. a first-party design requirement. It's cool and might work for you, but taking a non-trivial .net codebase to native AOT can be tough, and if you're starting greenfield, why go .net?

Re: .NET 10

#206

Post by xerxes249 »

ikety wrote: post #104
tinyspacewizard wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start-ups should strongly consider F#. It's a force multiplier when you have a small team of strong developers.

F# seems really awesome. Used it briefly for an internal tool. Are you at a startup working with it?

I am working at a 2k fte company and we use F# for a lot, its very nice to work with, prefer Rider over Visual Studio though.

Re: .NET 10

#207

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

cheschire wrote: post #161
miki123211 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both startups are based in the Dallas, TX area. Aah that explains it. For some reason, .NET is extremely popular outside of major tech hubs (notably in Europe), where you're much more likely to work for (without loss of generality) Ikea than for Google.

The Dallas area is a major tech hub. It’s just an older hub of major enterprisey type companies with major tech divisions there like Texas Instruments, AT&T, Bank of America, defense contractors like Lockheed, etc. Office Space took place there before the dotcom bust. Less enterprisey, but John Carmack and id Software also started there.

I lived and worked in Atlanta from 1996-2020. Those aren’t anymore tech companies than Delta, Home Depot or Coke by modern definitions. In all of the companies you named, software development is a cost center, not a profit center - follow the money. Who gets paid the most as a group at those companies? Those are enterprise companies.

Re: .NET 10

#208

Post by skeeter2020 »

sfn42 wrote: post #40
vintagedave wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.Net is also good as a platform for other languages. I recently started working with RemObjects, and you can compile languages like Java, Swift, Go and more (VB, Pascal) to .Net. Then, the whole framework and ecosystem is available. I'm liking it a lot. They have customers who are startups and the 'got to have tools' folk like having lots of languages since they can onboard people who know anything-not-C# and benefit…

> they can onboard people who know anything-not-C# and benefit from the .Net library I don't get this mindset. I'd much rather have the new guy spend a few months getting used to a new language, than have an organization where everyone uses different languages. It's a nightmare a few years down the road when you have 20 different projects in 15 different languages and the people who built them are mostly gone. People…

>> we use .NET for backend and React for frontend. You don't need anything else

...

>> sure maybe you have some data science people who need python,

This is how it happens though; it's not "let's form a company with 10 developers; don't worry what tools they use!". It's starting with a single problem using common tools, then adding specialized problems where you could still use the same tools but they are not optimized, then adding an acquisition product that uses different tech, then growing to 100 or 1000 developers and may all use React or C# (doubtful) but don't use it the same way...

>> If you're going to make a change then migrate everything

Have you ever worked for a software company before? THis is not how it goes.

Re: .NET 10

#209

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

tinyspacewizard wrote: post #42
jitbit wrote: post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

Start-ups should strongly consider F#. It's a force multiplier when you have a small team of strong developers.

Seeing that any startup is more likely than not to fail, why would I work for a company that is using a niche technology that isn’t going to be in demand when I look for my n+1 job?

Re: .NET 10

#210

Post by nicoburns »

jitbit wrote: post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

I tried .NET and liked C# as a language. But even though the language and runtime are now open source, it seemed like a lot of the recommended libraries were still commercially licensed, which was an immediate nope from me. I've never encountered that in any other ecosystem.

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