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ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

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Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#201

Post by davkan »

dylan604 wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #152

Rightly so. They should have never used it in the first place. What with the US not recognizing the court it always made very little sense to me that they would rely on the infrastructure components to be supplied by the USA. The latest sanctions are just another step in something that was already in motion from day #1. The world order at the highest level relies on the nations themselves to behave, especially the la…

> To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit. I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued ther…

Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no?

Only a year after Clinton signed the statute 9/11 was perpetrated. I can’t imagine any of the most powerful countries would have ratified it if they were in the midst of prosecuting a war.

Since then the US has softened on the ICC as it benefits them to maintain a relationship but, at this point why sign other than for ideological reasons.

And even if there was an intent to join there would likely be stipulations from the US. And it would have to pass the divided senate, after which it would likely go to the Supreme Court who with the current bench would certainly strike it down, meaning a constitutional amendment would be needed. It’s less feasible to join now than it ever has been unfortunately.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#202

Post by Telaneo »

p_ing wrote: post #157
mikestew wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how are they exporting such a modern document format? Holee crap, because it's still being sold an updated! https://www.wordperfect.com/en/ And the suite includes Quattro Pro, for those that are itchin' for that spreadsheet-flavored blast from the past. If I didn't already have the Apple suite on my Mac (which does all I need out of an office suite), I'd spend the $50 for home/student version just for the lulz.

https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/professional-edition/ Look at those screenshots! It's still a Windows 95 look'n'feel (which some HN users might enjoy).

I'd imagine the lawyers who have worked with it for 10-20 years or more are very grateful that its layout hasn't changed since 95. They've got better things to do than to hunt down a button that moved between Office 2016 and Copilot 365 (if that's what it's even called today).

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#203

Post by mkl »

onemoresoop wrote: post #124
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft has to follow US sanctions Microsoft has to follow US law . If it believes an order has been issued unlawfully, it—and everyone who works there who follows the order—has a civic duty to oppose the order in court.

>Microsoft has to follow US law. while operating in the US

No, anywhere as far as data goes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#204

Post by ulfw »

davkan wrote: post #201
dylan604 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit. I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued ther…

Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no? Only a year after Clinton signed the statute 9/11 was perpetrated. I can’t imagine any of the most powerful countries would have ratified it if they were in the midst of prosecuting a war. Since then the US has softened on the ICC as it benefits them to maintain a relationship but, at this point why sign other th…

> Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no?

Then why bother with anything?

Why does France join? From a French perspective it would just be ceding power no? Why does South Korea join? From a Korean perspective it would just be ceding power no? Why...

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#205

Post by realityking »

davkan wrote: post #201
dylan604 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit. I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued ther…

Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no? Only a year after Clinton signed the statute 9/11 was perpetrated. I can’t imagine any of the most powerful countries would have ratified it if they were in the midst of prosecuting a war. Since then the US has softened on the ICC as it benefits them to maintain a relationship but, at this point why sign other th…

> Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no?

It could have created momentum for other major powers to join (e.g. Russia) and given the ICC broad authority to prosecute the crimes it has jurisdiction over.

That might have created a world where leaders act differently. What, for example, would have happened in if Syria and Russia had both been members?

It’s easy to be cynical about ideas like the ICC - the logic of power is hard to avoid - but the US working against it is definitely a major reason for its weakness.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#206

Post by ultim8k »

jacquesm wrote: post #152

Rightly so. They should have never used it in the first place. What with the US not recognizing the court it always made very little sense to me that they would rely on the infrastructure components to be supplied by the USA. The latest sanctions are just another step in something that was already in motion from day #1. The world order at the highest level relies on the nations themselves to behave, especially the la…

Agreed. And I think European countries really need to start eating our own dog food and stop being 100% reliant on US software and hardware. It's not (only) about opposing certain political behaviours, but (also) about supporting our financial independence and wellbeing.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#207

Post by frm88 »

baumschubser wrote: post #151

Meanwhile in southern Germany. https://www.heise.de/en/news/Bavaria-wants-to-move-to-Micros...

Depressing. I wonder what convinced them of that decision considering national security and the price-tag of several billions. Also, Palantir. Do you think it's conservative attraction to the current U. S. administration?

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#208

Post by davkan »

ulfw wrote: post #204
davkan wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no? Only a year after Clinton signed the statute 9/11 was perpetrated. I can’t imagine any of the most powerful countries would have ratified it if they were in the midst of prosecuting a war. Since then the US has softened on the ICC as it benefits them to maintain a relationship but, at this point why sign other th…

> Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no? Then why bother with anything? Why does France join? From a French perspective it would just be ceding power no? Why does South Korea join? From a Korean perspective it would just be ceding power no? Why...

None of those countries are the preeminent military and political power in the world. Most stand to lose significantly less as signatories. The US does not need to be a member of the ICC to influence it, and they can largely operate with impunity as a non-party state that has permanent UNSC veto powers. Is South Korea in similar circumstances?

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#209

Post by davkan »

realityking wrote: post #205
davkan wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no? Only a year after Clinton signed the statute 9/11 was perpetrated. I can’t imagine any of the most powerful countries would have ratified it if they were in the midst of prosecuting a war. Since then the US has softened on the ICC as it benefits them to maintain a relationship but, at this point why sign other th…

> Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no? It could have created momentum for other major powers to join (e.g. Russia) and given the ICC broad authority to prosecute the crimes it has jurisdiction over. That might have created a world where leaders act differently. What, for example, would have happened in if Syria and Russia had both been members? It’s…

I am in support of the ICC largely and would prefer that the US were a member. Maybe we wouldn’t be living with the shame of crimes like abu ghraib if we had ratified.

Historical counterfactuals are tricky and I’m not an expert on Russia’s consideration of Rome statute ratification. I find it hard to believe that they would have ratified or not withdrawn the moment a warrant was issued for putin’s arrest.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#210

Post by 1718627440 »

davkan wrote: post #201
dylan604 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit. I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued ther…

Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no? Only a year after Clinton signed the statute 9/11 was perpetrated. I can’t imagine any of the most powerful countries would have ratified it if they were in the midst of prosecuting a war. Since then the US has softened on the ICC as it benefits them to maintain a relationship but, at this point why sign other th…

> Pragmatically what does the US gain from joining? From a US perspective it would just be ceding power no?

From any country's perspective this means ceding power. They just do it for the greater good and for justice. Deferring the right to bear arms to the state also means ceding power, but you gain a peacefuller society. Most people have more important and aspiring things to do, than fighting with their neighbors.

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