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Solarpunk is happening in Africa

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Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#201

Post by Karrot_Kream »

alephnerd wrote: post #22

As I keep saying ad infinitum, Africa is not a single unitary region. Different countries in Africa have better grids than others, and different countries in Africa have stronger penetration of digital banking and DBT than others. A country seeing a boom in domestic solar because of government subsidies and policies like Nigeria [0] is different from a country seeing a domestic solar boom because of a collapsing elec…

I'm curious how you stay on top of African affairs. South Asia doesn't seem that hard to me but I don't know where to follow the regulatory landscape of African countries.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#203

Post by epolanski »

baxtr wrote: post #97
w10-1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thanks to all the entrepreneurs and engineers over the past decades Hat tip also to China's ideological commitment to independence from external oil supplies, as nicely coupled to reducing pollution and greenwashing their image. It's their citizens who sacrifice to make solar power cheap enough.

Like anything else that the world procures cheaply from China btw.

At this point this is a cliche.

There's tons of countries with much cheaper labor.

The reasons we build in china are not related to cheap labor, this hasn't been the case from quite some time.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#204

Post by noosphr »

numitus wrote: post #167
noosphr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely does not. But having electricity 13 days every two weeks is much better than not having it at all. This isn't about China building out their grid with an over capacity factor of 200% so they can keep everything running even if rain, sun and wind all fail for months on end. This is a developing county getting to the point they can charge mobile phones consistently.

Unfortunately, all such calculations are egocentric. People assume that everyone can use solar panels for 13 days 2 weeks, and when needed, we’ll just get electricity from the grid. But what they don’t take into account is that when there’s load today but none tomorrow, the grid becomes unstable. 2) This also increases costs. You might save electricity consumption in 14 times, but your expenses for grid electricity c…

These people don't have access to the grid. That's the issue to begin with.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#205

Post by epolanski »

Incipient wrote: post #191
metalman wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the vast majority of solar panels are imaculately concieved in fully automated factorys,some where in fact there are NO people and they turn the lights off, as the robots are blind to those frequencys anyway. surviving solar PV production facilities operate on razor thin margins, and gargantuan volumes, the results of which are the electrification of most of the world, useing the absolute minimum of carbon. first lig…

This is a very rosy picture, unfortunately to the point of delusion. There are huge questions about the labour used in various stages, and the production of some of the raw materials is environmentally questionable.

Sure, but most of it happens in countries beyond china.

In any case, I literally have a cousin who's lived ten years in China building a 3d printing company, and the last reason he went to China was cheaper labor, that was borderline irrelevant.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#206

Post by bluGill »

mysterypie wrote: post #189
bluGill wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandpa (long dead) remembers his dad paying $600 in the 1920s (1930s?) to get electric to the farm. That is the actual cost, not inflation adjusted. Most of the neighbors didn't because that was too much money in those days.

> $600 in the 1920s (1930s?), not inflation adjusted I consulted the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator: $600 in 1925 would be $11,264 today $600 in 1935 would be $14,329 today A lot of money, but I've heard that it can easily cost $10-20K today to erect a couple of poles to bring power a hundred feet to your property in a rural area these days. Do you know what distance was being covered to bring power…

i didn't learn this until I was given a copy of his autobiography (about 5 pages) after he did so I have no way to ask.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#208

Post by thinkcontext »

eric-burel wrote: post #128

I had this idea to rent roofs to install solar panels, building a kind of decentralized power plants. I live in the sunny southern France where summer are starting to become unbearably hot, but at least this comes with a lot of sunpower. There are plenty roofs but sadly we install solar plants in spaces that compete with forest/fertile soil. I am not an energy engineer so that's not a realistic project for me, but ar…

There is a similar idea called "community solar" in the US. It allows electric customers to subscribe to the output of solar panels on someone else's roof. This allows a developer to build a solar array on a large commercial building's roof that they rent.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#209

Post by noosphr »

pfdietz wrote: post #144
noosphr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely does not. But having electricity 13 days every two weeks is much better than not having it at all. This isn't about China building out their grid with an over capacity factor of 200% so they can keep everything running even if rain, sun and wind all fail for months on end. This is a developing county getting to the point they can charge mobile phones consistently.

When I go to https://model.energy/ and ask it to solve for providing steady output in China from 100% renewable energy (wind/solar/battery/hydrogen) at minimum cost using 2030 cost assumptions and 2011 weather data, the solar curtailment is just 7.3% (and most of the energy is coming from solar, not wind). If I remove hydrogen and solve again, solar curtailment increases to 16.7%. "200% overcapacity" is completely bo…

It's their 2060 plan. Take it up with the CPP.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#210

Post by epolanski »

AuthAuth wrote: post #118
w10-1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thanks to all the entrepreneurs and engineers over the past decades Hat tip also to China's ideological commitment to independence from external oil supplies, as nicely coupled to reducing pollution and greenwashing their image. It's their citizens who sacrifice to make solar power cheap enough.

I dont think China deserves that hat tip. Their "commitment" was done years after all the major nations had committed to emissions reduction and seems to have only been done so they could sell the solution. They've made little attempt to reduce emissions and instead scaled their industrial base to capitalize on the demand from nations working to reduce their carbon footprint. The only thing they've done to greenwash…

> They've made little attempt to reduce emissions

They are a growing economy of a billion + people.

You need to realize this is a population that was virtually 90% poor just 3 decades ago.

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