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Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

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Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#201

Post by Freak_NL »

enopod_ wrote: post #191
Steve44 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK it's fairly common to use the term "Swiss cheese". Most people would know you are talking about Emmental or Gruyere and it would have the bubbles/holes in it. Although they are not the same cheese, they are quite close in texture and flavour and are fairly interchangeable to the point where I don't think a significant number of people could tell you which was which. There is also the Swiss Cheese Model whic…

Emmentaler and Gruyère close in texture and flavour and interchangeable? Oh boy, if you ever travel to Switzerland, I recommend you to keep your opinions on cheese to yourself. ;) Emmentaler has holes, is low in salt and has a taste which is on the bland side (I personally don't like it), whereas Gruyère has no holes, is saltier and has a much richer and "rounder" flavour. It comes in different stages of ripening, fr…

I'll never understand how people can think 'Gruyère' and then imagine cheese with holes in it…

A fun fact: the Dutch don't usually think of Emmentaler when you say 'Zwitserse kaas', but of these paper shakers filled with grated Schabziger:

https://www.gourmandgazette.nl/2023/12/08/zwitserse-kaas/

Those have been sold as 'Zwitserse strooikaas' for decades.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#202

Post by mschuster91 »

baxtr wrote: post #199
mschuster91 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Southern Europeans export their tasteless tomatoes to Northern Europe because people there don’t value tasty tomatoes that much. So southern Europeans keep the good vegetables for themselves. It's the other way around. The problem is that mass-market tomato varieties have been selected and bred for a long shelf life - which led to them losing taste because breeders didn't care about taste, only about durability [1]…

Ok interesting! And basically you’re saying the same as I am. If Northern Europeans would value taste enough, they’d be happy to pay double (since 50% of the shipment would go bad as you write).

You can't. Tomatoes - no matter what the 24/7/365 availability of tomatoes in supermarkets leads one to believe - are a seasonal fruit so you could only do this around summer anyway, and the price difference to account for large quantities of the shipment going bad would be way too large to compete with growhouse tomatoes. You'd need to establish and tear down supply chains just for the few months of summer, not worth it.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#203

Post by bruce511 »

com2kid wrote: post #146
bruce511 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is certainly the root of the misunderstandings in this (and other) spaces. At the very-local level of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking US food is terrible compared to European food. The US optimizes for volume and cost, Europe leans more towards quality. Yes, there's a lot of cheap rubbish food in Europe, but those consuming it know it's cheap rubbish. By contrast, and to your point, m…

> My local, nothing special, supermarket stocks over 100 species of cheese. I remember going to the US and being confronted either 3 (American, whatever that is, Swiss and Cheddar. Um, which is unlike any cheddar I've ever had. Frankly the biggest difference seemed to be the color (which is artificial). When was this comparison done? In the last decade or so American grocery stores have dramatically improved their ch…

This is from more than a decade ago. Nice to here things are improving:)

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#204

Post by petesergeant »

kakacik wrote: post #181
chris_va wrote: post #24

> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).

I presume you mean Emmental, the term "swiss cheese" doesn't exist or more precisely has no meaning, its like saying "american car" for example, what do you want to discuss with such a vague term. Switzerland produces up to 1000 varieties of cheese (still nothing compared to what France produces but its a tiny country comparatively), and literally 1 semi famous variety has holes. Its not what most Swiss folks buy mos…

> the term "swiss cheese" doesn't exist or more precisely has no meaning

Would you believe Australians call cheddar "tasty cheese"?

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#205

Post by fransje26 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #70
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why on Earth would they intentionally export only their garbage cheese? This usually happens when one population is discerning and the other is not.

I don't know what to make of that statement. It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss?

> I don't know what to make of that statement. It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss?

Not arrogant, just a fact of life.

In the same way that the average Dutch palate is content with food produce of mediocre quality and taste, and is satisfied with food that would make the average French or Italian wince.

Being discerning about the quality of your food is something you pick-up intuitively from birth. Some cultures have it, others don't.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#206

Post by uwagar »

fransje26 wrote: post #205
rootusrootus wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to make of that statement. It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss?

> I don't know what to make of that statement. It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss? Not arrogant, just a fact of life. In the same way that the average Dutch palate is content with food produce of mediocre quality and taste, and is satisfied with food that would make the average French or Italian wince. Being discerning about the q…

tbh for food in general, the farther the product from the source of production, the lower the quality. and lower the diversity too.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#207

Post by Insanity »

trenchpilgrim wrote: post #93
Insanity wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question.. where? Most bread seems to be high in additives and promoted as a “healthy food”, like additional vitamines etc. And even when buying natural bread without these added “benefits”, it often has high levels of sodium (up to like 200mg per slice). Bread is one of the easiest, most plain things to make, yet finding high quality bread isn’t straightforward in the States. But I do really want to know whic…

I can walk five minutes to a local grocery store and get fresh bread from their bakery. Immigrant bakeries are also great, I had some buns from a chinese bakery last weekend that were a "if this is what food is supposed to taste like, what have I been eating until now???" moment

My partner is Chinese and so we get Chinese (and bread-like products from other Asian countries) quite often.

In my opinion, it’s tasty but also not quite what I would expect bread to be like, mainly because it’s so soft. It is a running joke between us that Chinese teeth can’t chew through European bread (like an actual French baguette).

But agreed, Chinese bread > American bread for flavor at least!

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#208

Post by HelloNurse »

kgwgk wrote: post #22
riffraff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is odd, but people often confuse Emmenthaler and Gruyere. Even in Italian (just across the border!) it was not uncommon to hear expressions like "full of holes like groviera", and it seems in French it's the same based on the existence of this Wikipedia page https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxe_du_fromage_%C3%A0_tro... Language is just strange.

They also have their own “Gruyère” - different from the Swiss one and with holes - in France: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruy%C3%A8re_fran%C3%A7ais They also have a cheese similar to the Gruyère from Switzerland, but with a different name (the Gruyère part dropped from the name over time): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comt%C3%A9_(fromage)

There's also a tight branding and trademark component.

I remember a major ad campaign when proper imported "Emmental" was rebranded as "Emmentaler" because the former name was becoming generic, and a related ad campaign about positioning and promoting Emmentaler as one of several kinds of "Swiss Cheese" along with Gruyere, Sbrinz and maybe a fourth one I don't recollect.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#209

Post by HelloNurse »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95
rootusrootus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact - in Switzerland the holes are not permitted. Bonus fact - Switzerland imports more cheese than it exports.

> in Switzerland the holes are not permitted For Emmentaler ?

Someone might be confusing the large holes of Emmentaler (and imitations thereof) with the smaller and sparser ones of Gruyère.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#210

Post by MiddleEndian »

com2kid wrote: post #148
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are you saying that the rest of the country does not have anybody who makes fresh bagels? Of the kind that stale in two hours? Yes. It wouldn’t be economical. > maybe other cities in the US do have bagels that are just as good as NYC but they are more expensive? Never say never, but I haven’t seen it. I have seen private chefs pull it off. But they basically required a sous chef to deal with the lye and boiling. >…

A minor correction to your base premise - There is a bagel shop in Newton MA that is open for a few hours in the morning that has bagels just as good as NYC. People line to before they open and the bagels are quickly sold out in a mad rush. There is a French bakery close to me in Seattle there makes croissants in the morning and they sell out in less than 2 hours. IMHO they are the best croissants in the city, althou…

Which bagel shop in Newton is this?
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